Proving Best Practices By Testing

0:06

Rohit: Hi everyone, welcome to ConvEx where we are celebrating experiment-driven marketing. My name is Rohit and I head the North American Business for VW0.  For those of you who haven’t heard about VWO or Visual Website Optimizer, we provide an experimentation platform that allows marketers to understand user journey from click to convert. For today’s session, I am really excited to be talking to Martin Greif who’s the president at SiteTuners, a Strategic Conversion Rate Optimization agency.

Hey Martin, I’m excited to have you with us today.

0:45

Martin: Hi Rohit, How are you doing? 

Rohit: Very well. How about yourself? 

Martin: Very well. Thanks for asking. I’m excited for the opportunity to speak with your audience. 

Rohit: Awesome!  Before Martin starts off with this presentation, I want to inform you that you could join the ConvEx official networking group on LinkedIn and ask your questions from this presentation. With that said, Martin the stage is all yours.

1:09

Martin: Perfect. Well, thank you all for joining today. Our conversation today is going to be about how to prove best practices by testing. Now, one of the things that people ask is well, why do you have to prove best practices if you already know that they are best practices and there’s a couple of answers to that. The first answer is if you’re new to a testing program, by testing something that you really expect to work, it gives more credibility to upper management for your testing program. So if you start out of the gate with some wins, this absolutely helps you to continue to test and potentially to start testing some of the more difficult things. The other thing that happens is, just because we know that they are best practices, it doesn’t mean that it worked 100 times out of 100 times. Best practices work, you know, let’s say 95 out of a 100 or maybe 90 out of 100. Every website is different.

2:08

So, we’re going to go through some best practices and we’re going to talk about testing them and we’re going to talk about what you should be measuring. But the idea here is let’s absolutely confirm that when you use these best practices on your website, you are indeed getting a return on investment. So with that said, a quick agenda slide, we’re going to talk a little bit about us, and then we’re going to talk about the three questions that your web page has to answer for visitors to convert. And then we’re going to talk about actually putting these best practices to the test. Now, here’s the thing and we’re going to talk about these three questions in a minute, but just keep in the back of your mind – I say on here the three questions your web page needs to answer for visitors to convert. Well, it doesn’t matter whether we’re talking about a landing page or your homepage or, interestingly enough, a page that was reached from another page in your website because when someone lands on a page, they ask these same three questions over and over and over again.

3:09

Although, albeit sometimes not with the same urgency as they do on that first page that they land on. So a little bit about SiteTuners. We are a Strategic Conversion Rate Optimization agency. We do one thing and one thing only:  we increase your conversions and help you to grow your business. All right think of it this way – we are the persuasion people. So we’re a strategic conversion rate optimization agency, we work with clients large and small, from people who maybe can attribute a million dollars of value to their website to we have many clients who are multi-billion dollar organization. So we go from small to large and everything in between. Now having said that this is not about SiteTuners, this is about you and increasing your conversions. So let’s talk about the three questions that frankly any page and your website has to answer for visitors to convert.

4:09

And the three questions are really simple: Am I in the right place? How do I feel about this site or this page? And what am I supposed to do here? Now let’s talk about that first question: Am I in the right place?

4:22

Well, a lot of that is based upon the upstream messaging. I’ll give you a silly example. All right, let’s say you had a lead generation site, and you had a Google ad that said ‘free iPad with every registration’. Okay, and people come to your site looking for a free iPad. Well your site’s about, let’s say, insurance or you know a subscription to a newspaper. It doesn’t make sense. So that ‘am I in the right place?’ you know doesn’t match.  Now you can drive a lot of traffic but they’re not ever really going to be real prospect for you.

5:01

So the issue there is the upstream messaging really has to […] That’s not just true from PPC or social or wherever they were when they go onto a page. It’s also true when I go from page to page internally. If the page said if you have a link on your website and it said ‘view all of our barbecue products’ the next page needs to say ‘barbecue products’, okay. And it’s interesting how if the words aren’t exactly matching people start to think and they get confused, and when they get confused or have to think that’s called cognitive friction. And when we have cognitive friction people tend to bounce.

5:48

So the next question: how do I feel about this site? If they’re not feeling comfortable and safe because, again, we need to make people feel safe when they land on a page then again, they’re going to bounce. And then what am I supposed to do here? When you make it hard for visitors to figure out what they’re supposed to do, again, that’s cognitive friction and they bounce. So, let’s talk about each one of these in some detail. So – ‘Am I in the right place?’. So, it’s matching the visitor intent and their expectations from that upstream messaging, and as I mentioned before, it doesn’t matter whether it’s a PPC ad or it’s a link and title on one page to the next, and are you forcing the visitors to think.

And here’s why that’s important – you should never force your visitors to have to think. You have to, and this is going to sound terrible and I apologize in advance, but you have to design your website as if your visitors were lazy and/or stupid. And the reason I say that is we all have just some amount of patience and if this is, for the sake of argument, your gas tank of patience in your brain and if this is full you don’t know if they’re full of patience or you know, the dog just peed on the rug or you know, their boss just yelled at them or you know, you have no idea what happened. And they might have very little patience, and every time you make me think, you’re using up a little of  that patience until I leave. So, don’t make people think. So the question is, am I in the right place? Well, let’s take an example of am I in the right place? And this first example, which is interestingly enough from a brand, progressive. You know, the question was, in Google, New York homeowners insurance quote; that’s what I put in. And the Progressive Insurance ad said – Progressive Home Insurance ‘Homeowners Online Today’. And then, there’s protect your home and possessions that are for the price. So, ‘am I in the right place?’ and I would tell you that this site with flow who we’ve probably all seen, is making me think because I have to think do they sell insurance in New York state? All right. I wanted a New York state homeowners, this is a national ad, I’m not comfortable and so, as odd as it sounds, this does not match or answer the question – am I in the right place – without making me think. And here’s the thing folks, brands can get away with this, but just because you can get away with it doesn’t mean that it’s the right answer.

Progressive would have been much better off if they had said New York Homeowners Insurance on here.  So this is an example, believe it or not, if I don’t know if I’m in the right place or not. So this is an example of what not to do. Same Google search and the ad was compared ‘Top 10 Homeowners Insurance. Best New York Home Quotes in  minutes’. Okay, then it says ‘compare from top rated New York insurance companies serving ‘New York’, and when I get to the page, it’s all about, New York Homeowners Insurance rates. All right, the page is about New York, the title of the page is about New York.

9:08

So, am I in the right place? I am absolutely in the right place because this happens to be about New York homeowners insurance, and hopefully that’s kind of obvious. Now again, I go back to the brand that’s able to knock it away with that. But, if you’re not a brand and frankly, even if you are a brand you should match that […] messaging. When you match the upstream messaging your conversion rates go up because people aren’t happening to think. So the next question that people ask is: how do I feel about this site? You know,  and frankly if your site looks like it was from 1980 because that’s not happening 1999, they’re not going to feel good. And, are there trust elements on it? So, how do I feel about this site is something that happens instantaneously when someone lands on a page. Here’s an example: if I did a Google Search and I was looking to buy a Weber Summit E-470 Burner Liquid Grill and I did this and I come here and it shows me a picture of the grill. This is this is a two thousand dollar product, well $1,899.00 for me, that’s $2,000. And so how do I feel about this? Well, you know what, it’s a clean design, but I don’t know anything about these people and turns out the Academy Sports and Outdoors is a brand in the American, I think somewhere out west, but I wasn’t familiar with them. So when I get to this page, I might say, okay, it’s a reasonably clean site, I’m okay with it. But let me show you an example of the right way to do this. Same exact search Weber Summit E-470 Burner Grill, okay, Weber Summit E-470 Grill at BBQGUYS.

Now, look at this up in the top right hand corner they’ve got a phone number, and then below that you’ll see Inc. 5000,  accredited business, 100percent safe and protected, there are reviews with stars, all right. I mean seriously, if you look at this site compared to the other site, there is trust all over this site, okay. So, if the question is, ‘how do I feel about this?’, I feel safe here. It’s the same exact grill, it’s the same exact price, okay, but on this site, I’m going to feel safe. So it’s obvious, I would think which site do you think converts better? The answer would have to be this one because when I land here, I’m going to feel good about this. If I’m going to spend $2,000 online, I need to feel safe. Now I will tell you,  phone number, and this is true not just in the United States, but, you know, across the planet, phone number in the top right-hand corner is the biggest trust symbol anywhere. Real companies have a phone number in the top right hand corner. Now, having said that, there’s reasons why you might not want to have a phone number, you know, you don’t have people to answer the phone, you’re not there seven days a week or 24 hours a day. It’s okay to have a phone number that goes to some type of you know, IVR or some kind of system that gives them useful information. And yes, having the phone number in the top right-hand corner does increase conversion. It also increases phone calls but, not as much as you think. 

So, the third question that people ask is what am I supposed to do here? And so you want to use visual emphasis to direct people into the correct place, and you want to have clear navigation elements and clear calls to action. So for example, this is kind of a company Everten, they sell kitchenware in Australia and they are a fairly good sized company. And you’ve seen they’ve got a phone number on the  top right which is great, and they’ve got some other trust secure ordering, manufacturing, warranty, trusted by customers, Australian family business, it has some good things on here. But this page, if you were to see the entire page and you can go in the wayback machine if you want to see this, but it’s basically a collection of things that they thought let me just throw this out here and you could look at these knives or this cook set or this. And so, it was all about them, it’s what they wanted to put their. And frankly, okay, this is what a lot of companies do.

13:42

And this is an ecommerce site, it doesn’t have to be ecommerce; it’s the same thing whether it’s a lead gen site or whatever. A lot of companies do that – it’s all about me – and they throw everything they possibly can that they think people need to see or learn about them up on their website and that’s not going to help. So what am I supposed to do here is better answered by visual navigation. And here’s an example of visual navigation where they’ve taken their different categories and there’s more below here, This is a current version of their site. They’ve got bakeware cookware and they’ve got category level images, and then underneath that they’ve got some sub nav with some links. And so people can go directly to what they’re looking for here.

So remember we talked about before – Am I in the right place? How do I feel about this? And and what am I supposed to do here? Well, this site absolutely answers all of that these days. And the point here though on visual navigation is it allows your visitors to feel like they’re in charge. They can look at this and say okay, I’m here for cookware, glassware or whatever it is, visually they can see it. Now, here’s the other thing, and I know this is gonna sound strange but, I already said you have to design for your visitors as if they were lazy and/or stupid because all these categories have what we call category level images, you’re not showing one type of bakeware, one type of cookware. Because we’ve seen that when you only show one image on a category, some people look at it and say, you know what that must be all they sell, and then they bounce because they want some different type. With a category level image you’re taking away the thinking and we already know I don’t like to have to make people think on a website. So what am I supposed to do here? It’s really clear and this page scrolls down, they’ve got choices, and I will tell you the best practices rule of thumb is three to five items. Now [here] are three to five things to choose from now they’ve got four in a row, they could have three in a row, they could have five in a row, and interesting enough, you could have five rows, so that would be a 5 by 5 or 25 set Matrix. I’m not suggesting you do that but what happens is people look a row at a time – Is this row interesting? No. Next row interesting? So first to deciding is anything in the row interesting, then they look at the row so that’s where that 3 to 5 comes in. All right now having said that, let’s put the best practices to the test.

And here’s what I’m going to suggest you do – these are the four best practices that we’re going to talk about and we’re going to describe how each one of these answers the different questions that we’ve just put: static versus rotating banners, visual navigation versus god-knows-what on a homepage, lowering the number of form fields, and trust symbols in the header. So let’s talk about each one of these in a little bit of detail. So static versus rotating banners, why test it. Well, motion is distracting for visitors and rotating banners, you know, big rotating better, you’ve seen these, it pushes the important content down. So why is motion distracting for visitors? Well, I’m gonna look like an idiot again, but you know, we are literally animals, and by that I mean we used to be cave people and motion could potentially signal danger. It’s like, oh my God, the bear’s coming to eat us, you know, we see motion and so any time something moves we go, and I’m exaggerating, What’s that? What’s that? And you’re stopping us from concentrating and that again is cognitive friction. So what are you going to measure? You’re going to measure bounce rate, you’re going to measure conversion rate, and you’re going to measure the number of pages that people actually use or go to see now that we’ve gotten rid of rotating banners. So an example here for Sephora is this was a rotating banner. And then here they’ve got a static banner and they’ve made it really easy.

17:38

So the question here is am I in the right place? And it also answers what am I supposed to do here; it makes it real easy. We’ve done these tests, I can’t tell you how many times and depending upon the site we have typically seen that the conversion rate, when you remove a rotating banner, increases by 10 to 15%. We’ve seen that time and time again. And, now, having said that you have to replace the rotating banner with something worthwhile as a static banner that actually answers the questions, you know – Am I in the right place? How do I feel about this? What am I supposed to do here? So you can’t just put anything up. Now, I know there’s a lot of pushback, a lot of companies because there’s different constituents who want to make sure that their information is on the homepage. But let me say this, and let me be as blunt as possible, none of their constituents matter. The only people that matter are your visitors and that’s why we test this, all right, to prove to these constituents within your organization that the right answer is to give people exactly what they’re looking for and not make them think. And we’ve also seen, and you can test this too if you want to, that the engagement on rotating banners goes down from the first to the second to the third and we’ve seen people that have got 7 or 10. By the time they get that at seventh or fifth, you know, the number of people that are looking at it has dramatically changed. They they’re not going to sit looking at a rotating banner. So, again, by testing this you’re answering the questions – am I in the right place or what am I supposed to do here? And like I said, our experience has been that you can get a 10 to 15 percent lift on your conversion rate of the traffic that actually goes through, you know, and I say in this case a home page. If you’ve got rotating banners on other pages, it’s the same deal, but, primarily this is a homepage issue.

So the next in the list is visual navigation versus again a mashup of all sorts of things. Well, visual navigation allows people to easily find you know, the ways to the categories and pages that are interested. And what are you measuring here? You’re measuring bounce rate, conversion rate and time on page. Now, interestingly enough, the time on page, bounce rate I shouldn’t even have to say this, I know we know all those, bounce rate we always want the bounce rate to go down. The conversion rate, we always want the conversion rate to go up. Now, time on page interestingly enough, sometimes we want the time on page to go up, sometimes we want the time on page to go down. And the reason you want the time on page to go down here is it proves that they are not struggling to find what they’re looking for on your page when you use visual navigation. So this you’re looking for a decrease in time on page and conversely an increase in the number of pages that they’re going to alright.

20:31

So those are the things you measure. So, here’s an example of a before and after and same exact company and if you look at this, and this is what I was talking about earlier, instead of ‘here let me tell you everything you need to because this is the stuff you need to know’ that frankly nobody cares about, okay, that’s what’s happening on the left to ‘I’m here to buy product and I’ve got the categories of product’, you know, face care, hair care, skin care, sample kit, shop products. So this site, I will tell you, we actually have a case study on this, this increased the conversion rate by about 300% and really what happened here is instead of not knowing what to do, this answers the question … the reason with visual navigation. It absolutely answers the question, what am I supposed to do here? But it also, frankly because of all the design elements, because it’s not just visual navigation that’s here, you’ll also notice there’s more trust on this page. Now, there’s the visual navigation here, there’s clear calls to action here, it’s not an army of words marching around the page looking for me anymore so I feel good about it.

21:45

So, and again, this is an e-commerce example, but the same principles apply and we’ve done the same exact thing on anything from subscription sites to lead gen sites, making it really easy for me visually to determine what it is I’m looking for it here, all right, and that’s the difference between the front and the back. So you are testing to make sure that your conversion rate goes up that they’re seeing more pages here, and their time on your homepage should decrease. So, the next question on the list or the next thing to test is to lower the number of form fields, and I can’t tell you how many times we’ve tested this and it’s funny, you know, people argue about this. If you’re doing like a lead gen site, you’ve probably got somebody in your organization that says, well, we need to have you know, this much information, we need to have this to make sure that it’s absolutely qualified lead. NO, you don’t. Okay. Figure out what your least number of fields are, you know […] is because we’ve learned over the years that more is better or less is more, I should say. So, have have less fields you’ll get higher conversion rate, you will have a lower abandonment rate. So here’s an example and this is an older example, but I’m just so horrified by this, and I’ve always been horrified by this.

This is a test that we did for a client and they had first name, spouse’s name, last name, email, home phone, work phone, cell phone. I might as well have continued at and they got more stuff here, but it feels like – and what did you have for lunch? Did you enjoy your lunch? I mean these questions are just out-and-out stupid. Do I really need all of those questions to be able to be a lead? And the answer was NO. And we worked with them and we turned all of that from the left to what we see on the right here, and this increase in the conversion rate by 51%. Again, sit with your team and really push back on ‘do we really need to have this information on the form when we talk to the client or can we send them a follow-up email for more information? Can we at least convert them as a lead immediately? Do we have to have all of these fields?’ You can test it and you will find that your conversion rate will go up dramatically. I’ll give you one more example on lowering form fields. Again, this is going to be a little different. This is a downloadable guide, right, that’s obviously a lead gen site, and the before and after look very similar. The only difference is the number of fields and here’s the thing, to download a free guide for hearing aids, you know, and think about this: What do you really need to download a free guide? Do you need first name, last name, street, city-state – that’s on here – zip, coastal, email, daytime phone, alternate phone, how can we help? Do we need all of this stuff? And the answer is NO. Here’s what you need to give them an instant download. Absolutely nothing!

24:45

You can give people a download without requiring anything. Well, what do you measure in that case? Well, that’s a little harder to test because here’s the difference you can measure it as opposed to testing it. If you don’t have any fields to see where your leads are coming from in the download guide, what you would have to do is have a really qualified, wonderful, high presentation value download guide. And in it, you would have great calls to action because you earned their trust, you’ve earned the right to ask for the next step which would be to give you information. And when you do that, the number of qualified prospects you get or leads goes way up. But most companies aren’t comfortable with what we call progressive disclosure and non-gating the first item. So, with that in mind, this company wasn’t comfortable either. This did an increase of 17 percent. Again, the less number of fields you have, the higher your conversion rate.

25:41

And so, I know this may be an argument within your organizations, but I’m telling you less is more, and you would be better served not to have massive, massive, massive numbers of fields and you can test it really easily. You just have to be prepared for the pushback within your agency. 

Next on the list: trust symbols in the header. So, why test this? We really need to make people feel good. This is all about you know, how do I feel about this site? It makes it easier for me to be able to continue on the next stage in their journey. So what are we measuring, we’re measuring conversion rate, obviously. Well, I mean first off we’re conversion rate optimization agent so, we’re always measuring conversion rate, but it’s a good thing to measure. We’re looking at the bounce rate and we’re looking for the time on site. And on the time on site here, and we want the time to go up, okay, we want them to be more comfortable and be able to explore more pages on the site.

26:40

So, with that in mind, here’s another example. Again same exact website, before and after. And you know, are there any trust symbols in the header? And by the way, trust symbols in the header, this affects not just the home page but this affects all the land, all pages they land on and it’s reinforcing that trust over and over and over again. So, on the left hand side, we’ve got, I mean basically, no trust. You’re just supposed to believe me, I guess, I really don’t know. On the right hand side, and I do know that there was a massive increase in conversions, look at the volume of trust here and I’m going to point out … Oops! Sorry! When I went to my drawing tool it changed, but, look at all the trust here: over 200,000 customers, quality guaranteed, formulated in the United States, a phone number here, all in the header. So no matter what page I’m on, I’m going to see that trust. Now, they also added other trust on here: they’ve added, on the homepage, they’ve added some trust here, they’ve added this Norton guarantee on here. Actually, I take it back – the Norton guarantee is the only trust that they had on the left hand side. That’s interesting. So I’ll give them one piece of trust over here. But, look at all the trust that they’ve got here and we happen to know for a fact that their conversion rate changed dramatically. And so, this really does answer the question, you know, how do I feel about this and it makes me, and you know, they feel good about this. This is is really clear. So just to recap here, the three questions that were always trying to answer is: Am I in the right place? How do I feel about this page or this site? And what am I supposed to do here?

28:33

And so the examples that I’ve given you, which are some simple ones, that we know work over and over and over again because literally we’ve tested this on hundreds if not thousands of pages. These nine times out of ten or 99 times out of a hundred will give you an increase in conversion rate.

So with that in mind, feel free to contact me at Martin@sitetuners.com, or you can reach me on my office number. And of course, you’re welcome to connect with me on LinkedIn. Having said all of the above, let me make an offer: my staff will provide a free review of your conversion rate optimization efforts, and we’re all about taking action, so, this is available to the first five people who send an email to me at Martin@sitetuners.com, and the title should be ‘Review my conversions’ and we’re more than happy to help. But, it’s for the first five. Now, having said that, and knowing that this is recorded and if you’re watching this, well say, I don’t know, two weeks, a month later, don’t give up. Feel free to still send me this email and every month we’ll look and take, maybe, the top two or the first two that come in on a once a month basis for the next, well say, you know few months or so.

29:45

But for this recording right now, the people who are watching it right when it was produced, the first five people who send me email will get the free review of your efforts. Anyway, thank you, and I look forward to hearing your emails. And now let’s turn this back over to Rohit. Thanks. 

Rohit: Thanks. Thanks a lot Martin. That was a great presentation. And I in fact had a few questions while I was reviewing your presentation. So, the first question that I have for you, we get this question a lot that if I know that this is something that would actually help improve my website conversion rate and I want to test it, why should I actually go ahead and A/B test this?

Martin: Well, that’s a fair question. There’s a couple of answers to that. The first answer is, these best practices really do work nine out of ten times, but every site is different, and I don’t know in the audience what might be different about somebody’s site. So, to have a blanket statement that says ‘test this and it will always, 100% of the time work,’  frankly, that’s a little arrogant. And so, I’m willing to say nine out of ten, [or] ninety-five out of a hundred, but not a hundred percent of the time. So, with that in mind, you really do need to test and measure everything. So that’s number one: your site may be different, you need to test. The second thing is, especially if you’ve been running tests that frankly are not producing results, and by the way, we’re big fans of tests that don’t produce a winner because you learn even from losers; we’re completely okay with the test not winning because you should learn from it. The problem is there may be management in your organization goes, ‘well, we didn’t make any money, this test was a failure,’ and they may not understand that you can learn from, you know, a test that loses. So, with that in mind, by throwing in test that you’re pretty sure going to work, and that you can attribute some monetary value so you can prove ROI every once in a while that buys you the extra bandwidth to run some other tests that you’re not sure about. You’ve got a hypothesis you don’t know if it’s going to work, you think it will and maybe becomes a loser but, you made money on this test which was a best practices test, and then you do a couple of that maybe didn’t work, and then you do another best practices test – you’re stacking the deck in your favor to be able to do some of the harder test. That’s one of the reasons why you need to do this. 

Rohit: Right, that makes perfect sense. My other question that we often get from a lot of folks who are starting off with testing for the first time is how does an organization decide what to test first and how long does that test have to typically run? 

Martin: Okay, well there’s a couple answers into that. So, when you’re starting out testing, and I applaud people’s enthusiasm, we’ve seen people come up with really difficult convoluted test. That’s not where you start. Okay, it’s just not. You need to start with, again I’m going to go back to the obvious wins for two reasons and not really difficult test. You want to get comfortable with your testing tool which, I’m hoping is Visual Website Optimizer (VWO) for all of you people on the call. But, you really need to get comfortable with the tool and then you need to be able to show again to management what’s going on? So, you want to start with some of the more obvious things that should produce a win. Now, here’s where people really go south is they don’t test long enough.

33:30

Tests from our experience, need to run in increments of seven days. And the reasons they need to run an increment seven days is because that takes into account, you know, time of day variance and day of week variance. All right. So, yes, you can get significance. Let’s say you run a test, they’ve got such a high volume that you get significance in three or four days. I mean it happens and you know, it was Monday through Thursday you got significance, right? And then you say ‘we call the test and it’s a winner’. But your traffic on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday is completely different traffic potentially. And we’ve seen this where all of a sudden your winning test during the week is not a winning test on the weekend, and it’s not crazy to actually personalize your site to have two different versions of these pages depending upon the source, and time and date of traffic. So test really should run for seven days, you should be testing simple things first, and then when you get a little bit more sophisticated, I would start looking at not just testing different hypothesis on what should be on the pages. You should also start to looking at your traffic and your traffic sources because I will tell you the next quick win that you can have is to test by traffic source. And what I mean by that is, your PPC traffic will convert different than your social traffic which converts different than your organic traffic, okay, and so on, and maybe your affiliate traffic, I don’t know, all your sources of traffic. But by setting up your testing sources and then looking at how each channel of of traffic is interacting with those pages, you can then start to use these testing tools to truly optimize your site by traffic source, and of course it goes without saying I would hope that is also by device, so, you know mobile versus desktop. 

So, having said all that, step one is you start with some of the easier stuff. Step two is you start to do some more complicated testing, especially by traffic source, and then you always, even with your simple tests, run in increments of seven days. And you may find from that, that you have to have different variations. It could be daytime traffic versus night time traffic, it could be a weekday traffic versus weekend traffic or all of the above. Sorry that was a long-winded answer but there’s a lot. I could go on for 30 minutes on answering that question.

Rohit: No, that made perfect sense. Thanks a lot for that. I know that you mentioned a little while ago to me that you’re writing a book. Would love for our audience if they could hear more from you about some nuggets and from that particular book and when it’s going to be released.

36:30

Martin: Okay. Sure. Well, I’m writing a book. SiteTuners has written a couple of books over the years. And this book is one that I’m authoring, and it’s True Connections: Relationship Marketing In A Digital World, and it’s basically all about answering the three questions that we’ve just talked about, and how that relates to conversions. And the book is frankly, it’s written already. I have an editor going through it’s all of 10 chapters long. I have an editor going through all of these chapters as we speak and the goal is to have this thing published in September-October at the latest of this year. And if this is something that interests you send me a link and send me an email it’s Martin@sitetuners.com, and I will let you know when it’s published and where you can get a copy, anyway.

37:29

Rohit: Yeah, absolutely. I look forward to receiving a copy of that and so will our audience. Lastly, I’m pretty sure that the audience would love to connect with you. I think you’ve already left your social handle and your contact details in your presentation. Any other social forums, anywhere else that you typically are more open to talk about conversion rate optimization where our audience can connect with you?

Martin: Everybody’s different. Yes, I have a Twitter account. We have a Twitter account that is managed by our staff which is you know @sitetuners but, the best way to contact me, I’m a big fan of one-on-one. So, if you have a question or really just need a little help, just send me an email, give me a call, I have a team of people be more than happy to help you and I’m more than happy to talk to you myself.

38:22

So that’s always the best way. And of course, connect with me on LinkedIn. I’m always on LinkedIn. With that being said, Rohit, you and I are connected on LinkedIn, right buddy? 

Rohit: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. We are, We are. 

Martin: That sounds all good. Anyway, I’m here for you and we wish you the best and higher conversion. So thank you very much. 

Rohit: Thanks. Thanks a lot, Martin for participating and ConvEx today. 

Martin: My pleasure.