Optimizing the Consumer Healthcare Journey at Mayo Clinic

NOTE: This is a raw transcript and contains grammatical errors. The curated transcript will be uploaded soon.

Peter: for, uh, inviting Melissa and myself to talk to you guys. Uh, I’d love to thank Melissa for joining me on this, uh, fun journey. Um, we’re going to be sharing our experiences, optimizing the consumer health journey at Mayo Clinic. Uh, today we’re going to share our experiences in the format of Um, what’s worked, what’s not, and what’s next for Mayo Clinic’s effort to optimize the consumer digital health care journey.

Um, I always like to kind of give a little bit of an executive summary cheat sheet for those of you who kind of want to cut to the chase, but also for those of you, uh, who may be cheating and not watching the full video. So, uh, what are the key elements that we’re going to talk about that we want you, to try and remember? at a high level. Um, we want you guys to remember that experimentation efforts must be grounded in a strong foundation.

Um, they need to, uh, there’s many ways to do this, but, but the way we’ll talk about it is that, uh, the HOK, the House of Kaizen approach for inspiration, discovery, ideation, and optimization, and specifically how we applied it to Mayo Clinic, um, to help achieve some goals. We’re going to get across the point, um, that Melissa loves to make that experimentation work is never done and iterative improvements are critical to the success. Uh, Melissa will share, Uh, some, some soundbites and, and, uh, experiences in this area. and We want to get closer to consumers, um, and how that takes time.

Uh, it’s a process to get closer to your consumers. Uh, so in doing so we must take our first steps. So we’ll share a big first step that Mayo Clinic has taken. Uh, and um, we’re also going to share some ways to deal with some internal struggles, things like, uh, the hippo, the, uh, Well, Melissa, you remember what the HIPPO is, what it stands for?

Mellisa: Yeah. Okay.

Peter: Yep. The highest paid person’s opinion. Uh, so how do you handle, uh, challenges like that internally? Um, but also challenges that face, uh, that are unique to healthcare in terms of regulation and, um, uh, legal challenges that are put in place for great reasons to help protect the consumer.

Um, but also offer challenges for, Growth marketers and folks in our position that are trying to kind of grow the business that we just need to navigate carefully. And lastly, we’ll share some thoughts on, uh, like I said, what’s next, uh, Melissa, did I miss anything or anything that you want to add in terms of the key elements that people can get a cheat sheet on?

Mellisa: I think you did a great summary. I’m ready to go. I’m ready to get all the tips. Oh, wait, I’m giving them to be good.

I’m

Peter: No. Um, so let’s jump in and get a little more detail. Um, I’ll say if you guys do have any questions on any of the information we discussed here, you’re welcome to reach out to me. My email address is peter at house of kaizen.

com. That’s Kaizen, K A I Z E N. Um, or you can find me on LinkedIn. Melissa on LinkedIn, feel free to stalk us, connect with us, you know, whatever.

All righty, so let’s jump in. Um, Melissa, I would love for you to maybe introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about your journey to Mayo, your role at Mayo, uh, for those people that don’t know, maybe a quick overview of Mayo. Um,

Mellisa: Sure. Uh, so as Peter mentioned, my name is Melissa bear. Uh, I work at. Mayo Clinic and have for the past eight years.

Um, I started out working in, uh, patient engagement and loyalty, uh, and transitioned to my current role, which is really around the consumer health care journey experience and, um, how trusted quality health content for our consumers that are running up here. Prior to my life at Mayo, um, I worked at a fortune 500 company called Thompson Reuters. I spent more time with lawyers. I went from lawyers to doctors.

That did happen. Um, but I started out in my, um, professional career in marketing, actually in healthcare. So I hate to say it, but I’ve been in healthcare for about 30 plus years. I started working at a place called the American Academy of Neurology, and I’m due to, uh, like many folks, I unfortunately had a personal health issue, uh, that involved my parents.

And that’s how I got introduced to the complexities of the US healthcare system and very quickly became connected to opportunities to improve that. Um, and that’s how I’ve evolved. My marketing work really. For me, being able to focus on the mission, uh, Mayo Clinic is, um, the number one healthcare institution in the United States.

We also have a global presence, uh, and, uh, our mission is the needs of the patient come first, and we really, uh, walk that walk as well as talk that talk. So, um, it’s very critical, uh, for, uh, Um, me to have that as a part of the work we do here and also with Peter as a partner, um, we also make sure that our vendors are aligned with our why and where we’re going with that. So, um, that’s my little summary for background. will.

Peter: I love that. Yeah, it’s been, uh, it’s been amazing to have the opportunity to work with you and work with Mayo over the last, gosh, over a year and a half. Um, I think we’re, we’re quickly approaching two years. Um, so, uh, it’s, it’s been fantastic.

Um, I’ll give you a quick introduction. Uh, to who I am. Uh, so I’m one of the founding partners at House of Kaizen. Um, I work directly with our optimization experts to meet or ideally exceed client expectations, clients like Melissa and others in this capacity.

Um, it’s, it’s, I really enjoy what I do because not only does it to As a business owner and partner, um, but also in the involved in the delivery of the work, it really helps to make sure that we’re walking our walk and, um, and that we are doing good things for good people. Um, as a quick introduction to House of Kaizen, if you don’t know us, um, at House of Kaizen, we really believe that repeat customers are the secret to sustainable revenue growth. Improving their experiences is our purpose. Uh, so what does that mean?

Well, basically we achieve subscription and membership growth uh Subscription and membership business goals by optimizing digital media websites mobile app and product experiences So that’s kind of a little bit about who we are So that we don’t just start with kind of the professional stuff. Melissa, can you give me a little tidbit of what you like to do when you aren’t working? What’s what’s, what’s the, what’s your, who’s, who is, give us a curtain.

Mellisa: right. Um, I’m a huge historic home. volunteer with my neighborhood organization. So I live in St.

Paul, Minnesota. And we have, um, great historic houses in the area that I live in so built in the 1800s. So I, I go between there’s do it yourself projects were totally about that some days, um, and volunteering at my neighborhood association to kind of build community. In our city.

Uh, so that takes up a good deal of time.

Peter: That’s awesome. And you’ve just been working on your own house. That’s a Victorian style, right?

Mellisa: Yeah, you can see a little bit of it behind me.

Peter: Love it. Yeah, I grew up in a Victorian house. So the pocket doors, the, the cast iron radiators, um, takes me back. I love it.

Also, I live in, um, northern New Jersey, uh, Bergen County. Um, and when I’m not working, I try to spend as much time as I can playing tennis out on the tennis court. Um, yeah. Uh, sometimes with my family and sometimes with not without and, and, uh, that’s kind of been something.

And, uh, for those of you don’t know, uh, this just closed up the, uh, week of two weeks of us open three weeks, really, if you count fan week. Uh, so it’s been really fun over here for someone like me, a big tennis fan. All right. Um, now that you’ve got to know us a little bit more, let’s jump into kind of the nitty gritty.

So I love that you already mentioned kind of the, um, shared kind of connections that, that our companies, uh, realized and that you identified in the process of figuring out who you want to work with. Um, you know, we’re big believers at starting with Y for anybody who’s a Simon Sinek fan. Um, we believe that. People don’t buy what you do.

They buy why you do it. Um, and so I think that’s an important driver for our relationship for sure. And, and a lot of the efforts we’ve, we’ve put forward. Um, so let me give you a little background, um, in terms of, well, actually, Melissa, would you like to give them the background in terms of kind of like the healthcare space in the last couple of years and kind of like what, what, what inspired you to really kind of, um, take some of the actions I don’t want to do all the time.

Mellisa: Oh, sure. I think I’m as, as everybody really knows, um, COVID was a huge catalyst for change for the healthcare industry and Mayo was not, um, any different in that realm. I think despite the negatives that came out of that pandemic, there was an interesting, um, There was also interesting opportunities that came out of that and that was accelerated in the healthcare space because of that. One of the main elements being, um, a kind of a push to change how healthcare delivery, um, how we deliver healthcare and perceptions of it.

And so that translated into things like telehealth and, um, for my world, an enhanced digital experience. So, um, it’s probably no surprise to anyone, um, but healthcare tends to be behind. the ball when it comes to, um, more forward or innovative thinking kinds of marketing. Um, so I think that COVID forced the industry to really jump into the digital space where maybe we’d been tiptoeing.

And when you look at others involved, um, in companies and e commerce and all of that, they’re sort of so far ahead. Part of that is regulation stuff that we’ll talk about later, but part of that is just moving a big machine. Similar to government, similar to education. I got two kids in school.

I think we all know how that goes. Um, so I’d say that’s been a tremendous catalyst and also, um, in the landscape of, um, social media and content, the, uh, people are much more attuned and we found this in our research, Peter, um, when it comes to needing to be sure that they’re getting quality, trusted expert advice. Because the kind of reality is, as we all know, there’s a lot of clickbait and maybe suboptimal suspect kind of content that’s going on in the landscape, and people are much more aware of it now because of our political environment and all kinds of things that have gone on.

Um, and so for us at Mayo Clinic, that is, um, very critical and important to us as an organization that anything we’re putting out there. It’s factual, trusted and, um, multi stepped research. So, we sort of sit in that space, um, so it is a natural connection. And we feel, um, it’s, it’s, it’s a onus to us that we need to provide that accurate data to the consumers, right?

Um, no matter what, whether, regardless of if a person is coming to get treatment here, you know. So, there’s a democratization of healthcare content that we care about as well.

Peter: Yeah. So clearly, um, the timing was right to ramp up efforts and, and, um, uh, meet the consumer demand, um, help to, uh, offer a more trusted and reliable source of information than some of the other digital savvy companies that may have moved faster without as much regulation. than a large, uh, trusted healthcare company like Mayo. Um, and I think that’s kind of, that’s where our story starts, uh, in terms of, uh, the effort to come together and, and better meet the needs of the consumers.

And I think that’s kind of, uh, the driving force that, that, um, brought you to work with us and, and have these discussions around experimentation and, and how we can, Be better at meeting those needs of the consumers. So let’s first start kind of the, uh, the good stuff, right? What’s what’s worked. Um, what have we found that has worked well and, and what have we learned from those experiences?

Mellisa: From my perspective, as we embarked on The journey of how we evolve our digital health care content for our consumer patients. Um, we felt like it was important from the beginning to really center our work, uh, in our, uh, consumer research and really zeroing in on what our goals were. Um, what the goals were of the folks that we’re looking to target. And that’s sort of how we came into the partnership with Peter and his team.

Um, because we recognize that we needed an additional skillset, um, that was that with folks that had more experience working in online subscription and dealt with different types of this in the industry. And we brought to bear our healthcare expertise, but we, um, very much wanted to Go from from the get go. Um, kind of establish, get ourselves set up for success, I would say. And then, Peter, maybe I’ll hand it to you to kind of talk a little bit about the process that we embarked on together.

Okay.

Peter: Sure. Yeah. So, um, As I mentioned in kind of the intro to House of Kaizen, we do, um, uh, on site optimization, uh, experimentation, um, pretty often for brands. Um, and we’ve been doing it for almost a quarter of a century.

We’re in our 24th year of business. Um, through that we’ve developed a pretty, uh, a pretty reliable process for how we approach experimentation. So, uh, really there’s four key elements to the House of Kaizen approach. Um, we start with inspiration, which is really making sure that, um, with anything there’s, there’s inspiration that you’re driving the effort and driving the ideas.

Um, one of the key elements of how we. Get that inspiration is through our diagnostic process. This is how we start every engagement. And this is, you know, how we started working with Mayo back in 2022.

Um, it’s about a six to eight week process where we really strive to understand the experience, both from, uh, the consumer standpoint. And, uh, the product experience, both from the consumer standpoint, as well as the business standpoint, in terms of what are the business objectives and the business plan, uh, we then kind of overlay industry best practices that we’ve learned, um, both with our own efforts and from external. Um, together to review some insights together to, I, if there’s anything. Figure out, okay, what have we learned?

Where do we see areas of improvement? Where do we see opportunities to, to grow and improve the consumer experience? Um, and then kind of put together a roadmap for success based on that. So that’s kind of the first step of where we establish inspiration.

That’s really how we prefer to have any kind of engagement start with, with clients. Um, After that, we move to the discovery part. This is, uh, it’s also, honestly, it’s also a good way to make sure that those aligned passions and, and common ideals that, that Melissa noted in the selection process of working together, that they actually are real, right? Um, they’re not just, they’re not just sales pitch.

Uh, so we have that first step in the diagnostic. Uh, after inspiration, we moved to kind of the discovery, uh, phase of our, of our relationship. Through discovery, we really focus on goal alignment and consumer research more. So goal alignment is, is a critical step that I think Nine out of 10 companies we work with always feel like they’re aligned.

And then when we actually go through the goal alignment exercise of talking to stakeholders and talking to internal folks, we realize there tends to be some misalignment, maybe not severe, but some internally of what the goals and objectives of, of the growth strategy are. But what really is, um, Often lacking or, or, you know, misaligned is the consumer goals and objectives aren’t always brought into the goal alignment process. And, you know, credit Melissa and the Mayo team for being forward thinking about this and, and wanting to come to us and say, like, we really do want to understand what the consumers want and, and how that aligns with our goals.

So we can meet. both our objectives and the consumer objectives. And I think that’s what you were talking about earlier, Melissa, which is making sure we’re, we’re using consumer research to, to inform the strategy in a, in a critical way. Right.

Mellisa: Correct. I think that, um, in this work, that really was one of the pivotal points, um, that came out of our starting this for, for our team, because, um, It helped prior to that work that Peter and team did to really pull out what consumer needs when we’re going. We had a lot of folks, um, with sort of anecdotal opinions or and some of which was great and based on experience, but Um, wasn’t honed in and articulated in sort of, um, all of us weren’t in agreement as to as to how to focus and for, um, for my team, it was a way to help everybody’s really centering on what kind of content we needed to create it and why, and the strategy we need to use to meet the consumer needs.

And maybe, um, like Peter kind of mentioned, leave aside some of the outline. Um, I don’t want to say fluff, right? But not as big a priority, right? Because prioritization is always a challenge whatever organization you’re in.

Um, and this was a great way to make sure that what we’re trying to build is really honed in on the folks that need us. Um, and they were able to target really a particular set of individuals that are, um, our likeliest people, and that’s kind of like our passionate healthcare advocate kind of grouping. Silence.

Peter: the strategy was focused on the right things for both the business and the consumer, which as Melissa said, really meets with the mission of Mayo Clinic is, is, you know, patient first. Um, so, um, the other thing that consumer research does is allows us to really inform hypotheses that we’re going to use for experiments. And, um, you know, this is a bit of our secret sauce, but, um, folks in the industry, you know, probably won’t be too surprised. But I think the end, the last stat I heard was that, um, one out of 10 experiments, the variation beats the control, right?

Which doesn’t mean that the other were failures, right? Because we always value the fact that there’s learning from, from tests, um, that, that, uh, don’t have a, Variation that beats the control. So there’s always learning to be had, but of course, everybody wants to have the variations beat the control because that means we learned something that we actually put into action and we’re showing improvement in performance. Um, the reason I mentioned that 10 percent stat is, um, We found that with research as a core factor, in addition to kind of our process and how we run experiments, research is a core driver of our success rate, which is eight to nine out of 10, um, variations beating the control.

So, so a much, much higher success rate. In our experiments driven in part by the consumer research that we do. And, and, uh, that was one of the things that I think also has value of the consumer research. So definitely worthwhile there in the discovery phase.

After we’ve learned all this, we’ve done the goal alignment. Uh, we then move from discovery to ideation. This is the really fun part. Um, if you’re like me, you know, being able to kind of put your heads together, um, ideally in person, but.

But certainly also in video, um, where we can kind of really, uh, design and I’m sorry, where we can really ideate to explore different hypotheses and variations of how we could improve the consumer’s experience and meet the business goals. So that ideation phase is, is, is fun. Um, after that, we take all of those ideas, um, hundreds, sometimes, More than, uh, move it to the optimization phase. This is where we use that information to sit down with Melissa and team to design, develop, execute, um, and ideally iterate.

Uh, so that’s kind of the optimization phase that most of you guys probably are aware of and probably many other sessions we’ll discuss in detail. But over, overall, that’s the process we use to set a strong foundation for growth. Melissa, did I miss anything? Do you want to add?

Mellisa: no, nailed it. Okay. Um,

Peter: clarify what the minimum viable product is for the rollout of a new, uh, free registration effort around Mayo Clinic. So that was, that was really useful. Um, there was also some other efforts in terms of if, um, We needed more information on what might people be willing to pay for this information, uh, and other types of, uh, future planning, uh, initiatives. Uh, we, we, uh, we gathered some great information in those areas too that, that really helped paint a nice picture, uh, or demystify some of the things that were going on internally.

So the research was, was, was pretty helpful in that. Um,

Mellisa: I would, oh, I was going to say, I would just add on to, um, usability when we were working on onboarding, uh, we were able to deliver it via prototype and that would be something else I recommend because then we really were able to see. The hypothesis that we kind of set up with variations and how people respond to it in more of a live environment, for lack of a better word. Um, and I thought that was very successful because when we did finally, finally roll out to production, um, we, we found that, um, that usability study and the tweaks we made to that registration, uh, was pretty smooth and roll out and performed pretty clear as expected.

And our other problems were more with the onboarding stuff. Um, which we had some work to do and, um, in the one will be coming up next, which is getting more of those folks to enter the registration process.

Peter: Yep.

Mellisa: But I think that helped make that, um, much smoother. Okay.

Peter: I’m glad you called that out. And it also makes me realize we probably should have framed it a little better for everybody that we’re talking about, um, a free registration component of the Mayo Clinic website. Um, that previously did not exist. So we were rolling out a new product together that, um, previously did not exist as a way to get closer to consumers as a way to get closer to kind of the needs and meeting the needs of those consumers.

And that was a free registration process. Um, and as Melissa so rightly pointed out, whenever you’re launching a new product, uh, it’s a little. Um, and we might do all the research we want to do and what might be the right way to launch it. Um, but a nice interim step before getting the product out there in the market, um, is a usability study on, uh, on a prototype.

And I think that, uh, was a good interim step for us to validate some of our hypotheses or help develop more so that when we Did eventually launch that minimum volume product for that. Uh, we had much more confidence and buy in on, uh, that we were doing the right thing. Doesn’t mean we’re not still iterating and improving, um, uh, which is actually our next topic. Um, but I think it helped us have that confidence at launch for sure.

Um, and on iteration improvements, Melissa, I know this is something that’s, you’re really passionate about. So I’m going to let you lead this one if you don’t mind.

Mellisa: Yeah, I’m, I’m having worked, uh, I forgot right before I started at Mayo, I was working in an all digital product nonprofit, another one called CaringBridge, and it It’s, um, it’s all digital and a critical component of that work and really in my career, um, has been around the ability to test and iterate, um, whenever you’re moving these products forward. So I’ve like, over time, become a huge believer in, uh, behavior based. Data versus what people will tell you, right? Because people will tell you one thing and do another.

Anybody in fundraising really knows that. Um, so I, I think it’s really critical to, uh, outlay of a good product, um, and provides the most value and is often where you find your most prices. So as we were, I was mentioning in this product that we’ve been working on for the free registration product, our registration flow. was fairly solid.

But what we found was the onboarding companion, um, emails was where we had opportunity to improve. Um, so, uh, we were able to, um, kind of test into our next steps for how we shifted our email series for the onboarding, um, to get improve our, um, engagement rates with that. Uh, and the other, we haven’t, we haven’t actually brought this to fruition yet, but the other piece we’ll be working on will be, um, the getting folks to register on the site, which is also a great deal of opportunity for improvement there.

Peter: Yep. Yeah. And I love the, you highlighted onboarding. It’s, it’s, you know, for subscription or membership or anybody who wants a repeat customer, onboarding is really, you know, the first chance after acquisition to drive that positive relationship and retain that customer or get that customer to repeat.

Um, and so focusing on onboarding is surprisingly one of the most overlooked areas. Um, Um, or usually just hand it off to kind of like the product people, but it’s really kind of the, the revenue and marketing people who, who need a hand in that to make sure that these folks are experiencing the product, getting the value as soon as possible and, uh, and being able to, uh, have the best experience within the first 30 to 60 days of, of their journey. Um, so yeah, that was, that was great. Um, I would also add that, you know, just high level, I think.

One of the challenges in our space for experimentation is that a lot of companies tend to focus on the big wins. They tend to focus on the, um, large Lift experiments that drive a lot of positive result or or none, but are viewed as highly complex and and able to kind of have those hockey stick increases. And those are great. And then we love working on those.

But the frequency of being able to get those done is, you know, usually not as often as anybody would like. And it’s really the smaller experiments that happen at the same time. And we’re in between those large experiments, uh, that have a significant impact on growth and those iterative improvements, those, those smaller changes, um, can, uh, can, in my opinion, can be just as valuable as, as the big wins. And in combination is what’s the best approach for any business look into.

To, to grow. Uh, so shout out for the iterative improvements that anybody’s making out there. Um, so, uh, we talked about the launch of the free registration product. Um, I would say that’s kind of the last of our wins that we wanted to share with you guys.

Um, you know, the, the inspiration for this was to get closer to, uh, the Mayo Clinic consumers really try to better understand their needs and have it. More of a relationship with them in, in this capacity, right? We’re not talking about patients, right? Cause that’s obviously a different side of the business and why they may or may not fall into this group, but we’re talking about, again, those folks who.

Uh, came online to get reliable, trusted health information to deal with anything they might be dealing with or someone they care about might be dealing with. And, um, having them just go through a search engine link and get some information and leave. Um, In our opinion, doesn’t necessarily meet their needs as well as it could. Um, and certainly doesn’t meet Mayo Clinic’s business objectives as well as it could.

So how do we start to build that longer term relationship with those folks in a digital capacity? Um, and, uh, and this registration product was really kind of a, a, a nice first step in that. It’s not the last step, but it’s a good, it’s a good first step. Um, Melissa, what do you feel like, what were the conversations like internally when this was being discussed and, and, uh, and, and do you feel like the objectives are being met, um, at least at an early stage for this?

Mellisa: Um, I do. I think it’s very promising. Uh, you were mentioning, um, allowing us to get closer to the consumer, right? Um, from a consumer standpoint, for me, it’s I’ve sat in with various focus groups, even outside of the ones that we embarked upon.

Um, and what’s happening for consumers in the world is there’s just so much content out there that people are overburdened. So again, they want to know that they can trust what they read and certainly when it pertains to their health. So, um, for us, there’s a couple layers we’re working on one to meet that consumer need, um, and to be able to create this registration that allows people to sort of tell us what they’re looking for and help weed through the right content for them. That brings us, um, Um, a closer to meeting what their health goals are.

And the sort of underlying layer of that piece is we all we need to do that in a way that protects their privacy and data, which is always really critical when you’re working in the health care space. Um, but as we all know, just in the landscape today, right with GDPR, all of what’s going on with meta and Google, um, Privacy and that you can trust even that basic information to an organization is important. So that’s another reason that it allows us to create a space where we can, um, work with people in a more protected manner, if you will, right? Okay.

Peter: our clients, uh, unfortunately, trust can’t be transferred. Right? So, uh, so the ability to, to establish trust for, for a company like Mayo Clinic is critical at an individual level, right? We need to not just, um, not just, talk to maybe the decision maker in the household, but ideally the people directly affected by the information that’s being provided.

Um, so I think that that’s part of this effort too, is, is trying to make more connections, um, and, uh, better understand their needs so we can better meet the needs of the consumers. I think, This is probably a whole separate topic that could be a subsection of, uh, convex 2025 potentially, but this whole, you know, how do you use experimentation to drive trust, um, coming off of, uh, or what we would have been coming off of an election cycle at that point, um, and, uh, and a lot of the efforts around that, plus, plus many other things, I think, uh, also looking at the looming impact of AI and journalism and, and everywhere else, I think, you know, um, Using digital experimentation to drive trust is going to be critical, uh, for the folks in the space, um, in the next, uh, six to 12 months for sure.

But we’ll save that for another topic. Um, all right. So we’ve talked a lot about, uh, what’s worked well, uh, or and offered a couple examples of what’s worked well for Mayo Clinic Press and with our engagement with House of Kaizen. Um, Let’s talk a little bit about what’s not worked well.

And I think the things that we’re going to touch on here, um, One of them is maybe a little more specific to healthcare and other regulated industries, but the other is probably universal to every single business out there. That’s the one that I love, love to talk about in terms of where experimentation and our process in particular helps to address. It’s, it’s something Melissa alluded to, which is People’s opinion in particular, the highest paid person’s opinion that can more easily derail a experimentation strategy. Um, and how do we tackle that?

So this again is not specific to Mayo. It’s not, you know, it’s universal across every company we’ve ever worked with and it’s not always intentional, but there’s inevitably, uh, stakeholders and, uh, leadership involved that Have an opinion on where experiment experimentation can focus, where optimization opportunities exist, and, um, it is worth considering, but not always worth acting on. Uh, so I think this is one area where, uh, when that comes up, we figured rather than just complaining and talking about the fact that this happens from time to time, um, we could talk a little bit more about.

How we found success in addressing it. Um, Melissa, I know you had a great, um, tip on how to address this by, by building champions. Can you share that a little bit more with the group?

Mellisa: Yes, I’m so interesting. Peter and I were talking about this beforehand. Um, There’s something about the nature of your organization too, having worked in several, right? Mayo is a consensus building collaborative organization, which can be a great thing, but also a challenging thing because it means we are, um, very, we don’t do as much hierarchical and we’re sort of constantly, um, pulling people along on the train.

Um, so for myself, as I encountered this environment, it really means you’ve got to, zone into your emotional intelligence as a leader and collaborator. And I’m start building, as Peter mentioned, champions within different groups. So being a large organization, as a lot of people could possibly relate to, um, we have different stakeholders and execution partners that we need to get this work done. Um, And I found with Mayo, you’re sort of building champions up maybe on several levels, right?

And maybe it depends on which, um, which organization you’re dealing with. But it allows me a way to, um, share my story and really get a person invested, a stakeholder invested in our goals, why we’re doing what we’re doing, listening to how, um, what goals that they have and really listening so I can align them and say, okay, I’m going to meet my goals with your goals and kind of build up the, uh, champion from within. And I found that to be a lot more successful in getting work through because now it’s just me, you know, sort of prattling on or presenting the latest deck or what have you, but it’s really somebody that’s connected to the team saying, no, this is an important thing.

And, and even, um, Beyond that, the best part is it enters you into conversations you wouldn’t normally be a part of. So if they’re in a team meeting or another strategic meeting, they have having worked with me, they know enough about my project. I’m gonna be like, Oh, this is a good thing to bring up, right? Um, so that, uh, it also has been had the sort of added benefit of pulling me into things that really can benefit my work, um, simply because I’ve invested the time to educate people on what we’re doing, why we’re doing it and in a way that’s, um, open and understanding for what they need.

Um, the other piece that I, I mentioned to Peter that we’re, um, House of Kaizen really played a role for us is sometimes I’ve also found. with leadership that, um, it’s helpful to have an outside objective voice saying things. So this can be where, um, consultants can really be of value. And, and it may be that you as an internal team, you’re like, this is really where we need to go and why, but sometimes that doesn’t always break through.

For whatever. you know, myriad of reasons. Um, it can be really beneficial to have an outside partner that’s sort of saying the same things, or maybe they present it in such a way, um, that opens kind of the door for leadership. So I think I and I’ve leveraged that before.

I’m not gonna like, um, with various folks, right? So I think that’s another way to, um, help break down barriers when you encounter them. I’m

Peter: really useful. And I’m definitely going to, uh, Definitely going to carry the champion one on, uh, cause I think that’s critical. Um, you know, I, I will build on that and, and share that, um, for us, um, it’s a little different, right? Because being that outside party coming in, we don’t necessarily have, um, the luxury of, you know, Building champions is in the same way that you do, but I think we, we try to do it in our own way.

Um, but I think what we’ve seen work well in again, trying to make sure that the integrity of the experimentation strategy is not disrupted by the highest paid person’s opinion. The hippo. Um, one is we usually involve them in the goal alignment, right? So having this goal alignment process where we’re taking into account, what are people’s goals and objectives and refining it so that we have a North star, uh, KPI that we’re all trying to shoot for.

And we’ve all kind of aligned on that. One lets us all set our, uh, at the same, we are, we’re all aiming at the same target, including, um, the stakeholders and leadership. Uh, so that is one step. And then using.

our process for, uh, experiments, optimization tracker and building, uh, a tracker that allows us to develop a scorecard based on that goal alignment, based on that KPI to score the experiments that we’re considering. Inevitably we come out of ideation with hundreds of experimentation ideas through discussions, weekly meetings, whatever it might be. more ideas pop up. Um, we have access to tools that track what other companies are doing in the space.

So that sparks ideas. There’s never a shortage of ideas of what we could be testing. Prioritizing them is usually the biggest challenge and not everybody can test everything all at once or sorry, nobody can test everything all at once. Uh, so, um, having that prioritization order based on a scorecard that’s driven by your KPI, um, Also comes back to this highest paid person’s opinion challenge by saying, great, that’s a good idea.

We should test that and then we rank it using the same transparent scorecard formula that we use for everything else. And well, it didn’t hit the top. So, you know, we’ll get to it when we get to that that stage in the experimentation process. Um, and so the challenge if there is a challenge that follows from from the highest paid person Isn’t why doesn’t it meet the top?

It, this challenge becomes more of like, well, is this still the right objective and the still the right goal? And is the scorecard accurately reflecting that those conversations are a lot more productive and a lot easier to have than, you know, why shouldn’t we test my idea? So I’ve seen that kind of, in addition to what Melissa shared, be really helpful and, uh, in addressing that area that could not be working for some companies. Um, okay.

So, uh, the next and last, uh, what not, uh, what’s not working is, Okay. uh, a challenge that exists not just in healthcare, but certainly exists, um, uh, in all healthcare companies is, is the amount of government regulation, uh, legal hurdles that need to get passed, uh, again, for very, uh, for the, for the right reason, for, for very good reasons where it’s meant to make sure that there’s some. Reliability for the consust, for the consumer. And I think, um, in some ways we’re tackling that in different, different aspects of the current environment, right?

Where all these new people are rushing to online to get this information. And

Mellisa: This

Peter: AI is now currently a big part of that. I think that ability to have. protections in place for those consumers is critical. Um, Mayo being a company that’s been around for a long time and that has a large organization, um, that not just disseminates information, but acts on that information in the hospitals that you guys conduct, um, procedures in.

Uh, you guys certainly have one of the better, Views 360 views of all this from the consumer standpoint, but also highly vested interest in making sure that those standards are, are adhered to and that those regulations are adhered to and, and that there’s no crossing of the line and no treading into the gray area. Um, from a marketer standpoint, of course that adds to the hurdles that we need to jump through in terms of growth and optimization. Um, Melissa, I would love to know, like how do you and you navigate that? On a daily basis, right?

We, we, we, we work with you on this. Um, but, uh, this isn’t something we deal with as often as you do. So how does that. What is life like in, in your world dealing with, uh, that kind of aspect, the regulation and, uh, all of those things?

Mellisa: Yeah, um, yeah, it’s we’re smiling because it manifests in all kinds of complicated ways. Um, From a marketer standpoint, it is very painful because a provider, um, is the most stringent. I said, I worked in health care for a long time. This is my first provider working.

So it’s different working in health care consumer completely outside of being a health care provider. And it really, um, increases complexity and our ability to sort of leverage some of the basics when it comes to experimentation, optimization, even paid media kinds of work, um, from acquisition standpoint. Um, and. For healthcare, the digital side, we were talking about COVID and that push earlier.

This is places where like even HHS is sort of trying to figure out what’s going on, you know, and it manifests and things and about what, how IP addresses are tracked to people and what they’re doing online. And it’s a very nebulous area, even for the government. So we have to, um, Um, tread most conservatively part of the like, um, common sense challenge, which that is, is, um, it often goes against what people expect. So because of the consumer, we are so trained right by Amazon and others that, um, everybody sort of is trying to give you what you want before you even know you want it.

And so you now almost expect things to be known about you. I’m And so, um, some of our, uh, patients and when we’ve done research and, and discussions with them, they’re, they not only, they expect that we know all these things about them, and for various regulation reasons, we may not be able to actually give them things, which sounds contradictory, And it’s because of the structure behind it. Uh, and then they’re irritated. Yeah.

I mean, right. Right. Because you’re like, Hey, if I’m dealing with diabetes, you know that, why don’t you give me the diabetes? They don’t, cause you just don’t common sense, understand what’s going on.

And I found it’s just, it’s only escalating, you know, um, we have a customer who’s talking to, and it’s like, you know, she’ll be like, you know, all this about me. And you know this about my husband and also my son over here. And it’s like, well, now I just, that’s a lot of data that I just logistically can’t relate, but common sense, she’s like, you, you know, all this. So you’re going to do all this for me and my family.

So it’s, um, it’s creating a, uh, conflict between consumer expectations and how we can really deliver it. And I think that’s the crux of what we’re wrestling with and how we’re trying to figure out to bring forth an experience, um, that can deliver on that, that people can interact with and help with that. So that I think is, and that’s where, um, experimentation really is key. Right, because now I can figure out how I can layer what they’re telling me, what they’re doing, um, and still maintain all the appropriate, um, guidelines and regulations that we need to adhere to, to protect that information.

Totally.

Peter: are not driven by your competitors. They’re driven by their overall experiences, right? So if I’m, if I, if I’m on Mayo Clinic and I’m looking for information, I’m not just comparing how easy that process is to say Healthline or somewhere else. But the reality is like their expectations is not driven by just Healthline, it’s driven by Amazon and Peloton and Google and you know, all the different ways that they’ve used to become accustomed to getting information online, all the different ways that they’ve used to be getting treated and and how they’re used Getting, um, you know, their needs met from all these different businesses.

That, that’s having an impact on what they expect from Mayo Clinic, right? And so to your point, um, you don’t necessarily have the ability to offer them the same things that an Amazon does, right? Um, you have more regulations and more stipulations of how you can communicate to them

Mellisa: Yeah.

Peter: buying patterns, Target could identify that somebody was pregnant. sometimes before they knew and serving up promotions and discounts for diapers and, and, uh, you know, maternity clothes or whatever it might be. Um, that, uh, that ended up having a huge backlash for people realizing that, Hey, you, you shouldn’t be using my, my purchasing, uh, information in this way. Um, So there are benefits to having regulations and, you know, protecting the consumer’s, uh, privacy for sure.

Um, but navigating that does, does become tricky. I think, you know, another thing we’ve learned really, um, through this process, and you guys have been great about this, is involving, The right people at the right time in what we’re looking at and look what we’re looking to do, right? Bringing in the people that know those regulations better than anyone and making sure that we are talking to the right teams before any say paid media is launched or before like products are launched, uh, to just always give that double check, um, on, on what we’re looking to do and make sure that we’ve really considered all the aspects of, of this unique area of the healthcare industry.

Um, But regulation exists in other ways in other industries as well. Um, all right. Well, so moving into the last part of the conversation, I’d love to talk a little bit about what’s next, and then we’ll do a quick recap, um, before we let the folks go. So, um, Melissa, what would you say you’re most excited about in the next six to 12 months, uh, for, for Mayo Clinic, uh, in the area of experimentation?

Or in the healthcare sector in general. It doesn’t just have to be a Mayo Clinic.

Mellisa: Yeah, I think, um, for our work, uh, I’m really excited to, um, build up to bringing, um, a really valuable healthcare content experience to a user, right? It sort of sounds simple, but when you start to dig underneath that and you think about what’s involved in healthcare and how many different types of journeys one person might be managing your mom, your dad, your kids, yourself. Um, there’s a lot that of opportunity to really figure out how to do it well. You know, because I don’t think anybody really is, and I’m why that’s really important to me is anybody that has gone through a health care journey, you know, that it’s the little things that can kind of send you over the edge to so research is shown right from a stress standpoint, when you hit a big stress like you’re facing a serious or a complex health issue, every little added decision or problem is only accelerating your stress.

So I look at the work we do as really about de stressing, right? Because I’m giving somebody the right information at the right time to help them make the next decision, to help them feel good about themselves, to help them take care of themselves or their friends or family. Um, so that is really, you know, kind of the heartbeat of, I think, where we can go with our work. Um From the health care sector in general, I’d say there’s just tremendous opportunity.

There’s things like, for example, at Mayo Clinic, we have online appointment schedulers, and you might think in all your world, think of all the food you order and getting your car checked. That’s a norm, but it actually is difficult for a lot of providers. And some of you may know that from experience. Um, so it’s even those simple things.

Like, how would you how do you accelerate? How do you get away from that doctor wait time? How do you accelerate the answers to your question? So I think for health care overall, um, we simply aren’t taking advantage of the digital world as best we can.

Some of that is, I will say, some of it is due to the regulation kinds of things that we that needs to be dealt with and should be. But I also think there’s great opportunity for the industry to transform, um, into a new space. So. That’s cool.

Peter: more reliable, trusted source of health information because it’s, it’s a scary thing to try and weed through all of the information that’s out there. When it’s someone you love that you’re trying to make sure gets the gets the right care at the right time. And healthcare is, you know, it’s, it is about the right care at the right time, you know, to two years too late, could be two years too late. Um, okay.

Well, I think we, uh, I think we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re close to the, uh, close to the hour mark, I believe. Um, so let’s, uh, let’s close up with just a quick session recap to remind everybody, uh, what we’ve, what we, want you to remember walking away from all this great information. Um, Experimentation efforts must be grounded in strong foundational work. While there’s many ways to do this, we shared the HOK approach, uh, and, and how it, uh, how it’s helped Mayo Clinic.

Um, feel free to take all or parts of that, um, and use it for yourself. Um, experimentation work is never done. Um, Melissa brought this, uh, to life in her talk about iterative improvements and, and how they’re critical to success, um, how they’ve been. Useful at Mayo.

Getting closer to consumers doesn’t happen overnight. It’s a process. We need to take the first step. Um, things like the free registration product that we’ve worked on together at Mayo and research and, and many other things, uh, are really important to drive getting closer and getting closer is, um, really what helps build those long term relationships.

So it really, you know, it helps build kind of the strong relationship. We also shared ways to deal with some of the internal challenges that might exist, whether that be the highest paid person’s opinion or, uh, regulation, things like that. Hopefully that was useful. Uh, and then of course, close off with some of our future thoughts.

Um, Melissa, any closing words that you want to share, uh, with the group?

Mellisa: Um, I would just say that I don’t think there’s anything more fun than doing experimentation and optimization, because I love when the users surprise you, right? And you get that result, and you’re like, Oh, it’s totally going to go this way. And they just take off in another land. And that’s what I think, um, one of the things that I think keeps it fresh and why it’s so fun to do it.

Yes,

Peter: the what worked a year or two ago, maybe has to be revisited because, uh, it’s not set in stone and we know for sure that, uh, behaviors change based on environmental changes and other factors. Um, so, uh, so yeah, It’s always, it’s also fun to dust off some of those old experiments and run them again and just, uh, just see, does this still hold true or have things changed? Um, cause I think you might be surprised from, from what that is. Um, Melissa, thank you so much for your time.

We have one more question, um, that, um, VWO has asked us to throw in here for a little fun, which is, uh, what is the current book you’re reading or your current book recommendation for, for the audience? Um, What do you got?

Mellisa: I got, I’m going with two, right? I got Louise Erdrich, love medicine, who lives in Minnesota here. Fabulous author, if you haven’t read her, Native American, and then I got to do an MC press book. So this is showing backwards, but it’s diagnosed.

And this isn’t clinical guide guys. This Uh, actually a really touching, compelling story, and it’s one of our leaders that got prostate cancer and had and had to experience that himself. So I think there’s a, there’s a lot to connect with here. Um, and really these folks, uh, kind of pick it up the mantle to say some things need to change broadly speaking in health care.

So, diagnosed.

Peter: Nice. Um, and could you spell the author’s name? Do you know it by any chance? uh, for no, for, uh, for

Mellisa: it’s, it’s, um, Chris Ross, I have to look because it’s Chris, C R I S. Ross, R O S S, and it’s actually with Ed Marks, who’s Cleveland, used to work for Cleveland Clinic and Marks, M A R X.

Peter: Uh, in the other book. Yep.

Mellisa: it on Amazon. Louise Erdrich, E R D R I C H. Love medicine.

Peter: I’m asking for me because I’m going to look it up.

Mellisa: She’s awesome. Any of her books I would recommend, by the way. Um,

Peter: and continue until you’re done. Um, a little, uh, a little strange and otherworldly in some of the aspects, but mostly, uh, mostly grounded in reality in terms of the storylines. Just a, just a really compelling author that, that, that I love and trying to get through his whole collection. So Norwegian Wood, one of his most famous works I just finished.

Highly recommend that. And then, um,

Mellisa: Beatles song, Peter.

Peter: what’s that?

Mellisa: No relation. to the Beatles song.

Peter: Uh, surprisingly very little relation to the Beatles,

Mellisa: Got it. Okay. You

Peter: if you think books about aging, where you’re trying to get tips to age healthier as I am, um, have to be, um, painful to read, you gotta pick this up. This author is hilarious and, and makes me just enjoy reading it. Um, so I mean, just some of the quotes in here are, uh, it’s nice to know that, um, important and real information that I need for my life can also be enjoyable. So this is a good one.

Man overboard from Mayo Clinic Press. um, Well, that’s all we have for you guys. Hopefully you enjoyed the session again. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me.

I’m peter at house of kaizen dot com. Find me on linked in, take a look at our website, house of kaizen dot com if you need to, um, and just want to thank again the folks at VWO for inviting us to participate. Um, I’ll also mention, I want to thank them for being the, the, uh, Platform that powers all of the experiments that we do together with Mayo Clinic Press. And, and, um, uh, that’s been, that’s been awesome.

So Melissa, thanks so much for your time and the ability to share some of the insights and some of the experiences that we’ve got together. Um, that’s it. We’ll end it here. Thank you everyone.