From $0 to $200MM in 2 Years: How a Fast-Growing D2C Brand Used CRO to Scale the Business

We can take around a minute or so to kind of wait for all folks to join in. We’ll wait for like, 10 more seconds, and then we can begin with the awesome, awesome presentation that Lucas has got for us in store. And I’m sure it has, you know, tons of insights and examples on, Lucas’s experience, and I’m sure it’d be helpful to all of us. So yeah. Okay. I think we can begin now. 

Hello, everyone. Again, thank you so much for joining the VWO webinar where we always try to upgrade and inspire you with everything around experimentation and conversion rate optimization. I’m your host Divyansh. I’m a marketing manager at VWO, a full-funnel website experimentation platform.

Today, we have a special guest who I feel a lot of people already know or will know after this presentation. Welcome, Lucas from Trafilea.

Lucas Kenji:

Thank you very much. Thanks for the introduction. Hi, everyone, and good morning, and good evening. I’m not sure where you guys are. So I have to have you here.

I’m Lucas. People here, call me Kenji, and I’m the CRO Manager at Trafilea. Trafilea is, B2C, a big eCommerce group. I’ll be sharing a little bit of our experience with a CRO today and how we use 0 to grow our business. And my idea here today is to bring some concepts that we are, often using. Plus, give some examples of what we did in the past and what we are doing now to keep using CRO as a growth team.

Pretty much, my idea for today, guys, is I’ll be presenting, but feel free to interrupt me. Feel free to send in the chat any questions that you may have and a bunch to help me out with, possible questions that you guys have. Okay?

D:

Definitely, Lucas. I’ll be more than happy, to moderate the session. And, before we get started, just a side note, before the actual discussion, I want to let our attendees know that you too can participate in this discussion. Go to Webinar does not allow me to switch on your cameras, but I can switch on your mics. So do share your thoughts on the questions being discussed. Send me a request using the chat or the questions box from the control panel, and I will be happy to unmute you. Lucas, the stage is yours. Please take it away.

LK:

Thank you so much. So, guys, let’s, start with our presentation. We have a lot to discuss today. That’s the idea of this presentation that I brought and I’ll just go over a little bit each topic, and we can discuss that, by the time we get there. Plus again, feel free to send your questions in the chat, and Divyansh will open your mic so we can talk a little bit and make this more interactive. 

You know, pretty much today, what we are doing here is I’ll talk very briefly about Trafilea or what we are doing, at Trafilea, what is profiler. I’ll talk about the CRO mindset in a growing business. So that’s pretty much it. It’s like setting the background for, like, the base for everything that we’re gonna discuss here today. What is the CRO mindset and how this helps to grow any business, especially in eCommerce, which is our case here. The 3rd topic I have for today is a strategic versus isolated test in which I will cover a little bit the difference of running a strategic test and an isolated test, and I will go over for sure what is, strategic and isolated test and how a strategic test can actually improve the way we are doing CRO and scale, any business that is in constant growth. 

The 4th topic is 100% connected to what we have as a title of this presentation, which is one example specifically from Trafilea that we used CRO expertise, A/B test expertise, not only for  A/B test but going beyond the A/B test to grow from 0 to 200000000 in 2 years. And that’s one example of when we had this group, and I will also bring some examples of what we are doing now after all this group that we had in 2 years.

And finally, to close our presentation, I’ll talk a little bit about CRO maturity in a growing business. Pretty much, I will give an example of what we did here as an eCommerce to be more mature in terms of CRO. So I’ll just go over the process. Okay?

So starting with, Trafilea, what is Trafilea? So Trafilea pretty much, we are, an eCommerce group, and we are basic, and a peer one is a peer eCommerce So we have Shafer Maids and Trueitis, as our main brands. So those are eCommerce more related to Shafer, and we are now also launching, a skincare brand called Revel. And we are growing in the eCommerce field, like, you know, woman’s a hero, other woman products, and pretty much that’s the way we envision to grow, like, in terms of eCommerce, we are building different eCommerce platforms.

And I’ll explain a little bit about how we are using CRO in this context of eCommerce growth. Later, I’ll share this presentation with you guys so you can have access to everything that I’m posting here, and I don’t need to keep, like, playing videos and center for you guys. So it’s starting with our content now. Our first topic here is what I’m calling a global mindset. So I’m dealing here with CRO as a mindset, which we should be applying.

And we can apply this in pretty much every stage that we are in terms of growing our business. And CRO processes, it’s something that is not new. So companies, they’ve been applying CRO for a while, even though they didn’t know what was CRO. So that’s my main idea to explain to you here. What I say when I say that CRO is actually a mindset and a process, then like a password is actually because CRO has been applied for a while, and we keep doing that for, for all those years without even knowing. And this is why I’m sharing that. Guys, can you hear me well, Divyasnh? Can you hear me well? Because I think we’ve seen some efforts here.

D:

Perfectly Lucas, the audio is perfect for me. Others in the audience, can let me know if there’s a lag in the audio or video or other quality in general, and we’ll be happy to sort it out. But it’s perfect from, my location. Yeah.

LK:

Alright. Perfect. Okay. So let me move on with your doubt. I was saying, about this being a global mindset, and this is why I say this is a global mindset. This is a very simple way to look at CRO. CRO is a process to first identify problems. or opportunities based on that come up with possible solutions, what we usually call a hypothesis, then define a minimal viable test or how to validate the hypothesis and then go to a process of evolution. Understand what happened there and how we can improve.

And this is pretty much what the scientific method does. So this is the scientific method. In the scientific method, you ask a question, do some research, come up with a hypothesis, validate your reporters, understand what happened, come up with an analysis, and then you understand exactly what was the result of the experimentation. This is pretty much what CRO is doing. So that’s why I say CRO is not new, and we’ve been applying this for a while because this scientific method it’s exactly what we are doing in terms of experimentation.

So first, we define a problem and opportunity, and then we ask a question on top of that. We do some quality research to understand what we could be doing related to that probably an opportunity. Based on that, we come up with hypotheses on how to improve or how to explore a new opportunity. Then we test with the A/B test. We make observations on top of that AB test.

We draw conclusions. You know. So the process itself, it’s very, very similar. But the way we do that in a business context is just a little bit different because we have, like, people involved. We have different teams, etc.

But the process itself, it’s the scientific method, you know. And I’ll just like to explore a little bit more this very simple process. That is the CRO process that I just mentioned before. So in terms of problems or any opportunities, For an eCommerce, for instance, this is our example. In every eCommerce beginning, we may have some issues regarding trust, brand trust because it’s a new brand.

So this is a problem at the beginning. This also might be an opportunity as you grow. So that’s why identifying this in your business is important. Here, I’m bringing examples for any comments about every type of business. They will have, like, their particular problems in their particular performance. For us, even though we grew a lot, the new brand and low trust started to be a lower problem for us. We start having on other things. For instance, I had to hear about size and security, as we sell woman’s apparel, size is an issue for us. So this is one problem that we need to tackle in a very strategic way.

So we identify that, and we try to come up with solutions. It’s like the process that we are more used to, which is 100% related to CRO, which means developing a hypothesis that can solve that problem and opportunity. Usually, the way we do that is by coming up with lots of ideas and then prioritizing that. That’s how we were doing in the past when we started our CRO program here. So pretty much very, very simple.

Presentation with all the ideas that we had, who was the owner of the idea how that was connected to the problem and opportunities, and how this would help us to improve our success metrics, you know. So that’s exactly what we were doing. And what we also keep doing is, raising ideas, sharing this between the teams, and prioritizing all those ideas, you know. So this has come up with possible solutions. After that, we do what we call a minimal viable test, which is to develop the minimal that is required to A/B test our solution. In our case here, we have as a problem, an opportunity, the size, and security. Maybe we develop a new, size table or size recommendation in our eCommerce. That’s it.

That’s our meme will be able to, as we don’t need, like, a platform behind it, to run this. We just run the bare minimum for us to validate what is happening behind the scenes, you know. And after that, we go to evolution and evolution means to understand exactly what happened and what we could do to improve the results of the tests that we ran. Even though our test is a winner, we should run, this evolution stage, meaning that we for sure have some things we can improve.

And he had brought one example from us from traffic directly. So this is the Shapermint website. If you go to Shapermint.com, you’ll see this page. And in the past, we were trying to scale the eCommerce AOV. We had this issue that we wanted to increase AOV.

Our AOV was quite low but also sustained a similar conversion rate. So our metric in this space was not actually conversion rate, but AOV that we needed to increase, and we come up with the cross-sell strategy. So we started offering different products in the cart for using bio, any product, and it really any product. So we came up with, initially one company to try to increase this AOV and at the same time sustained the conversion rate. And this was our first experiment.

So we came from research. We created many hypotheses with prioritized that was our first guess. And based on that, we test this, and we didn’t get a winner. So this first test was a drop actually in this metric that we call profit for Vista. And the reason was we were increasing AOV indeed, but we are harming the conversion rate.

So at the same time, we ran the A/B test. We run some user research. So we had quantitative data from the test analysis and qualitative data from the user research to try to understand what was happening with this. That’s why we were having a really poor performance in terms of conversion rate.

And we noticed that people were confused with this element and this was actually not allowing them to see the procedure checkout button that we had in the cart they were confused about which icons were added to their cart if this icon was actually added or not to the cart, that’s why our conversion rate was dropping. Based on that, we redesigned this test. This was one important experiment for us. We needed to increase AOV. Our first step was not a winner, so we iterate on that.

And based on this iteration, all those learnings that we got in terms of conversions and experience with this element, we redesigned the entire elements to come up with the same best idea to increase AOV using cross-sell at the cart by just changing this element, and this is what we did for the 2nd phase. Just a small change in terms of UX and copy for the same type of communication, so it’s still across our communication to cart but with that communication, we got +3.6 percent against controlling terms of profit per visitor. Pretty much what we did.

We took some learnings from Phase 1. Like, the copy wasn’t clear. The offer wasn’t clear. People, they were not being able to move to the checkout. We had many colors offered.

Now we only have one color because there was a column that matters to our users. And by doing those small changes, we came from, like, a drop in terms of profit per visitor to a lift in terms of profit per visitor. So that’s why this, iteration part of the evolution of the test, it’s, quite important for us. And even though I mentioned before that this is important, even when you have a winner test, and reiterate on top of this winner test, we came up with a third version, which is this version. This version is exactly the same company but with a different offer.

And this different offer increased the profit per visitor by 5%. The reason is we have actually better profit margins with this product that we are offering as cross-sell and the previous one. And what happened was even though this product is different, we were able to keep, like, the same AOV and similar conversion rates. So at the end of the day, we are actually having a higher profit for Vista because this product is cheaper for us than the other one. So we improved not only the element, but the offer that we were doing. And this is how we started based on this test, this minimal via being able to test to scale from CRO from an experiment to a product in the company itself.

The first thing is to implement the offer So we implemented this. So the test was a winner, and we tested different offers for different products. Apart from this one that you guys see here, we test many, many others. Many, many other products as a combination with other products, that people are adding to the cart, you know.

After that, we had a phase called scale. So scale is actually when we try to automatize all the processes of recommendation. As I mentioned before, this is a minimal variable test. The minimal that we need to do, we don’t need a recommendation system here. We just need to validate how this is gonna work, and that’s how we test it, then we automatize. And it’s no longer only an A/B test. It’s our product recommendation feature that was bought because of an A/B test. And the last phase is developing this recommendation system. So before we are using, like, 3rd party dose, manual recommendations. Now it’s like us based on our data to try to recommend the best product to our users, on top of what they are adding to their cart. So pretty much this from a simple A/B test, we iterate a lot, and the evolution, the ending point of that was, actually having our product recommendation in place.

And that’s, that leads me to what we call strategic testing because this test that I mentioned, it’s connected to what is the strategic test and what is isolated best as I mentioned before. And the idea why this type of testing is important. It’s because it connects CRO with the entire business model. And this is not only good for the company, but also good for the CRO area because the CRO area becomes more important as it’s connected to the business goals, you know.

So related to the strategic testing, I also brought here one example of what we were doing because I think there was this one may clarify a couple of concepts that I’ll show later. But pretty much, what we wanted to do was scale our subscription program, and I’ll give you guys a little bit of context. We are a company that grew a lot based on Bay Media, but we, for sure, not only us but many other eCommerce, we’re seeing, like, our cost of acquisition increasing a lot, and relying on those more loyal would be a green button for us. And at Shapermint, we have a subscription program, which we call the Shapermint Club. As we had discussed acquisition increasing a lot, and we have a subscription program.

One of the business goals that we had was to increase profitability by getting more paid subscriptions, not only API users but also acquiring more users for the subscription product. That’s actually something we are always trying to improve, but this is one business goal. So it’s a goal, not for the CRO team, not for the marketing team, but it’s a goal for the company.

The company has this as a goal, and we connect the CRO effort with this business goal. To do that, we created a CRO process to better understand how to communicate those subscriptions on our website and communication touchpoints, like email broadcasts, email flows, on-site communication, etc. And this is what I say when I see strategic testing connecting your initiatives with the company initiatives. Here, we were connecting.

We started from the business goal, and we try to understand, how we, in terms of experimentation, we can help with this business goal. And our solution was to come up with those series of A/B tests to find the best balance for us in terms of short-term performance, which means converter at the same session, and long-term profitability, which means more users, getting into our subscription product, you know, This is what we did. So we tested. We had literally hundreds of tests on that, like, subscribing to scale the subscription program with tested communication at the homepage at our collections page, DDP page, checkout page, and also in different positions with different copies, different layouts, etc. So this is one single objective, which is a scale, our subscription program. And with one single objective, we can have, like, 100 tests. This is one good example. These are some screenshots of the tests that we ran in the past and some that will run, will come after. And pretty much, we tried testing this communication.

The shipping method as many companies do in a different position at the checkout with a totally different UI, totally different copy. This is a communication on the home page. we tested many different versions of subscription problem communication, and that was it. You know, so one single objective, many, many tests connected to that.

This is, what I’m calling a strategic test because it’s not one test, an isolated test, but it’s a series of tests connected to a macro objective. This is only to highlight. This example is only to highlight all the differences between isolated tests and strategic tests. And this is what will make Sierra bring more value to the company. when we have a scenario of isolated dust, in a sense, we are being reactive.

So we have a problem, and we go and react to the problem. We just launch a test and try to see what happens. With a strategic test, we have been proactive. So we know what is the objective, and we go toward that. It’s not like, oh, I just want to improve the conversion rate. Is objective linked to that? What do I need to do to connect my efforts toward that same strategic objective for the company? Meaning that we will be impacting the company as a whole. So in the second row, we have objective. The company as a whole. It’s the main advantage of strategic tests. It’s not a local optimization. It’s not CRO optimizing their own metric. It’s us optimizing the metrics that are important for the entire company. And we have in terms of people working for isolated tests.

That’s, like, all the CRO team’s initial phase. Like, we have silo-specific teams working on those isolated tests, but as we grow in maturity in terms of CRO, we have cross-company initiatives. So it’s not anymore the CRO team only running experiments. It’s all other teams pretty much especially marketing teams running experiments on-site, on email, on paid media, etc. In terms of analysis, one thing that’s pretty critical for all is CRO initiatives.

Mostly, when we do isolate tests, we are only focused on results. We just wanna test. We see how it is performing. It went well. It overcame the control. It’s performing better or not. But on the strategic test, we also focus on the why behind it. So why something is happening, it’s really, really important for any CRO initiative that it will happen when we get more maturity, material in terms of CRO. So focus on why behind the numbers, it’s really important. That’s one of the reasons in my previous example that I was showing that cart cross-sells component. I mentioned that we did some user research to try to understand exactly why we were seeing the numbers that we were seeing.

It’s not like this test is not a winner. Let’s move on. It’s why this test is not a winner. How we can iterate on top of that if it works to iterate on top of that. And finally, in terms of planning, and strategic tests, we have established a process. That means you know, in my last example of the subscription program, we have established processes like first. I need to test this, on the checkout, which is less sensitive, then I can go to my home page, then I can go to my PDP. I will need efforts in terms of development for this and that. I expected to have tested everything that I wanted. Subscription program communication by December 30.

You know, so this is an established process to understand exactly what you do and what you do next, for instance, My test 1 is a winner test. What do I do? My test 1 is conclusive. That’s what I do. And if it’s a lost test, what do I do on top of that as well?

So it’s having a process even before the test starts. You know your test can fail, but before it fails, you know what you could do if it fails. That’s pretty much, an example of how the strategic test is different. And here, I also summarized a little bit in terms of concepts that we have for strategic testing and why this is different, why this, is really, really important for us. The first thing is to align with the company’s OKRs.

That means convincing the company. That’s why it’s important even for us as CRO professionals to convince all the people that we are bringing value to the company. Once we align this with the main objective of the company, it’s no longer the CRO team running a random bunch of random bets. It’s like CRO teams, running experience or running tests towards the same objective that we have in a company. So this is how we start convincing all the stakeholders that we have value, and we can prove this value by connecting this with them the main OTIs of the company.

The second point is slightly strategic. Testing requires in-depth user understanding. It’s not like guessing what the user wants, or what the user needs. It’s like really understanding what is happening through qualitative and quantitative data so we can build something that will actually bring value to our users.

So first, we’re talking about being rallied to internal stakeholders than our users. In the third step, we have iteration or the evolution of the failed test or even the winner test sometimes, which is to learn. One of the main objectives we know for CRO is to learn more about our business and our strategies. And only by doing a proper integration, we can do that. It’s not, again, it’s not just a matter of declaring a test on whether or not without understanding what happened behind it.

And final, as I mentioned, the test, must have a process. And one thing I just want to point out here is that in terms of organization, this is critical, not only pretest but also posttest, especially when we say, when we talk about, documentation. And documentation is something that many, many CRO initiatives lack off we don’t have proper documentation. What was the test idea? What happened? The learnings that we got. So this is a really important part for us here. We use, like, a Jewish conference to map literally every test that we were and the output and the outcomes that we had in terms of each test, you know.

And this will also be great in terms of management. We no longer have, like, one CRO managed on top of everything. Need to check every single test that we are running at the company to make sure that they make sense, they are running properly, etc. The process itself, it’s what will guide the CRO team.

So if you have a process in whatever management tool you’re using, you don’t need to keep monitoring what the CRO team is doing. Like, the process is there. All the tasks are there, or the due dates are there. So it’s pretty much like the team working with the process and not the one over error.

Having said that, as now, we already talked a little bit about the strategic test, we can explore all the ways to go beyond the A/B test and how to apply CRO to different business contexts. As I mentioned before that for every strategic initiative in terms of CRO, we need to connect that with our objectives and the two results I mentioned. This is one single example, which is almost exactly what we did, just a little I just changed a little bit some, naming here, but pretty much it’s what happened to us when we started scaling even more CRO. I have brought another example of a company objective and key results.

So we have one objective connected to our, qualified leads generation, and we need to increase the profitability of those leads that we were generating. This is what we came up with. And, again, let me give a little bit of context again. So this example makes more sense. We have, any comments using x we were having any comments using expensive, to collect leads.

So we have a 3rd party tool collecting leads for us, and we actually had a pretty, pretty good leads acquired rate. That was actually really, really good, but the cost of the platform was too high. And, again, the objective, the key result that we have was to increase the profitability in our lease acquisition strategy. So one of the business goals that we had at the moment was to actually lower the cost. It’s that we were kind, we are quiet in our both in commerce. And what we started to do is to create our own solution, our own logistics, And this is what I want to show you how we did that. Pretty much initially, what we did was map all the leads collection strategies that we could possibly have. For instance, if someone is calling me from, like, organic traffic, direct traffic, they land on the store, we’re gonna show a pop-up to try to connect leads, what we, how we’re gonna do the lead acquisition strategy, are we gonna ask for email phone numbers, etc.

How this will be a strategy for this specific traffic source? But what happens if the person is coming for a second visit in 30 days? We will show a different strategy, or if they’re coming from paid media that we are paying to acquire this customer, would the strategy be different? So we started to map all the touch points that we wanted to collect leads and how we should provide information or how we should provide. How should we communicate actually?

Our strategies in terms of acquisition of leads for those different traffic sources. And again, this is not an A/B test only. Like, only this mapping thing it’s not connected to EBITDA. It’s connected to another business goal, another marketing goal, but it’s a CRO team involved in that. Because in the second 5 the 2nd phase of this process, what we did was to start finding different offers for those different owners to optimize our lead strategy. So this is it. Now, yes, this, we started doing A/B tests, but the initial phase of this project, it’s not so we start with, almost a product initiative, and we started to run AB tests on top of that. So it’s just getting closer to our product team now, our IT team eventually. So it’s no longer an isolated desk. It’s a desk.

Across the company, it’s a test that involves, effort from many, many teams. So in this 2nd phase, pretty much we started testing different offers, different UI, and different copies on how to acquire more leads. And then, yes, we validate our solution. and what happened in that scenario? So this is a screenshot from our VWO platform.

What we have here as a test is a control group, our previous solution, and our new proposal based on all of this research and all those proposals that we have for different countries. So we were able not only to Keep and even increase the lead acquisition rate but also increase the same session conversions. So by using our strategies, we were being more assertive and assertive in terms of communication for those audiences and people, they were actually buying more with some statistical significance behind that. And that’s like a big win for us. Because we started to get more revenue, in the short term, get more leads, long term, and also we reduce the cost of our third-party tool because now it’s an internal tool which is much, much more shipper.

No? So it’s increasing revenue and decreasing costs by the end of the At the end of the day, our profit here was way, way higher than it used to be just by going over this process. And for us, to close our agenda, I brought up a little bit about CRO material, and how we increase CRO material. And this is what I want to show you. Pretty much, as I mentioned before, it’s very natural that in the beginning, we have all the in pretty much most companies, the CRO team only run experimentation or running AB test, and it’s completely fine. Like, this is being scaled, but as the company grows, we want to be more mature in terms of experimentation. And as we have to be more strategic as well, This need would start being a cross-company initiative because that is connected to a company business goal. What we did in our process was to spread the A/B test, kind of a spreading A/B test word in the company, you know.

This is how we did that initially. Pretty much what you’re seeing here are different squads composition at Rafino and in which one of those squads, we have at least one person from the CRO/growth team working on developing a hypothesis, coming up with improvements for different strategies which are all connected to business goals. For instance, we have the first one, one squad related to our paid media strategy, another one only for leads, and the other one only for UX Y improvements, are the only ones to improve shipping and coupons communication, our checkout communication, improvements, etcetera. So we have squads that are a 100% connected to our business goal.

And in those squads, we have at least one person from CRO. Blash Grove and it’s not only CROs plus Grove. In all those squads here, we have different people from different backgrounds, different teams. So we have people from IT, for instance, in this squad. So we have this other Lucas, this other Lucas guy here, He is, from IT, and he’s at the checkout squad.

He’s the last person at the checkout squad, the last box you have there. So we have products, we have IT, we have all the marketing teams, acquisition teams, retention teams, pretty much all marketing team, product, and IT teams. They are involved in this process now. So it’s now a cross-company initiative and no longer CRO running experiments on the side. A second phase of our maturity in terms of CRO was tools and resources.

We started to increase the base rate by relying more on those. As we increase, it’s mandatory for us to rely more on those whose expertise, and I’ll show you here one example of one feature, especially, talking about VWO that we are using a lot, which is this small thing here called edge to meet your exclusion group. What this does is allow us to run multiple tests on even on the same page without overlaps of tests. So I can run like 10 tests on the same page and people that are part of one test will never be part of the other test.

So even though that statistically, I conceptually could be doing this running 10 tasks, on the same page. Sometimes my hypothesis behind it, behind the test that I want to run, conflicts against each other. So I have one hypothesis that if I add this element, I will improve the conversion, but the other hypothesis actually reduces the number of elements that I have on a product page. they conflict against the dollars. I can run those two together, and that’s, where we started to rely more on the tools we had available.

And finally, we have new technologies and also personalization. I’ve started with new technologies, which is a step forward in terms of the tools that we have mentioned before. And, again, here are, I’ll bring an example from VWO. which is, VWO Full Stack. VWO Full Stack is pretty much, a feature that allows us to run server-side tests.

I want to get into the details. but it’s pretty much it’s not, one thing that usually we begin when we have CRO tests when we start having CRO. In every company, what we usually do first is test UX, test copy, etc., but server-side tests allow us to test features and things that we need to change in the back end. That wouldn’t be possible with a regular solution of A/B testing, you know. And this is the next step of evolution in terms of tools starting to be having more technology so we can have more tests in a faster way so we can run more tests in a shorter period of time. With this, we start personalized experience, in our eCommerce. So we can now have different types of users receiving totally different experiences based on what they’re doing. And this is, the stage of CRO maturing that, we are now already starting for its organization. And that’s like a long road for us, to keep doing that. And I think I’m a little bit after the time, but that’s, what we have planned for today to discuss all those things about CRO or how to make CRO more strategic in a company to help them grow.

And I hope that was, useful for you guys. And again, I will share this presentation on all my contacts, with you in case, you wanna reach out with some questions. And thanks again for joining this webinar, and I’ll stop sharing my screen now.

D:

Thank you so much, Lucas. Now would be a good time if you have any questions or doubts regarding how experimentation is in Lucas’s organization. It’d be a very nice time to ask any questions. Seems like there aren’t any, but, yeah, you have got a Lucas’s social. He’s very active on, LinkedIn. He’ll be more than happy to reply to you. Otherwise, you can also write to us at marketing@vwo.com, and we’ll reach out to Lucas and clear all your doubts regarding this presentation or anything related to it. So, yeah, thank you so much Lucas for joining in. It was a wonderfully crafted presentation with a lot of details and insights. How experimentation actually is in a mature organization where things are very much art and it’s a challenge to put them together. It was a delight to listen to you. And, yeah, see you soon again. So have a great day, guys. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye.

LK:

Bye.