{"id":92449,"date":"2024-11-26T11:22:06","date_gmt":"2024-11-26T05:52:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/vwo.com\/blog\/?p=92449"},"modified":"2025-11-26T15:44:41","modified_gmt":"2025-11-26T10:14:41","slug":"ian-fong-interview","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/vwo.com\/blog\/expert-interviews\/ian-fong-interview","title":{"rendered":"Leverage CRO for Cost Efficiency and Strategy Building, Not Just Revenue"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p>Welcome to the tenth post in our &#8220;CRO Perspectives:  Insights from Industry Thought Leaders&#8221; series. This time, Ian Fong, a leading name in Australia\u2019s CRO industry, shares his expertise on various aspects of CRO.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Without much ado, let&#8217;s get started.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2400\" height=\"1400\" src=\"https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/Feature-image-CRO-Perspectives-Ian-Fong.jpg\" alt=\"Ian Fong\" class=\"wp-image-92450\" srcset=\"https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/Feature-image-CRO-Perspectives-Ian-Fong.jpg 2400w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/Feature-image-CRO-Perspectives-Ian-Fong.jpg?tr=w-1600 1600w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/Feature-image-CRO-Perspectives-Ian-Fong.jpg?tr=w-1366 1366w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/Feature-image-CRO-Perspectives-Ian-Fong.jpg?tr=w-1024 1024w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/Feature-image-CRO-Perspectives-Ian-Fong.jpg?tr=w-768 768w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/Feature-image-CRO-Perspectives-Ian-Fong.jpg?tr=w-640 640w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/Feature-image-CRO-Perspectives-Ian-Fong.jpg?tr=w-375 375w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2400px) 100vw, 2400px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p><strong>Leader:<\/strong> Ian Fong<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Role:<\/strong> Managing Director, Experior<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Location: <\/strong>Australia<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Speaks about:<\/strong> Digital Strategy&nbsp; \u2022 Conversion rate optimization&nbsp; \u2022&nbsp; User Experience&nbsp; \u2022&nbsp; Experimentation&nbsp; \u2022&nbsp; User Research<\/p>\n\n\n<h2 class=\"js-cro-guide-subheading gtm_heading \" data-level=\"level1\" data-menu=\"\" id=\"\" data-menu-id=\"\" style=\"text-align:left\"><strong>Why should you read this interview?<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n<p>Ian brings over 15 years of invaluable experience in Conversion Optimization, helping businesses excel in the digital space. As the Managing Director of Experior, Ian leads a team that consistently drives impressive results in increasing leads, conversions, revenue, and average order value.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ian started his career as a digital marketer in an agency before moving in-house. In 2014, he co-founded Yoghurt Digital, a digital marketing agency where he successfully led and grew the company from a team of 3 to 35. Given his vast expertise, his insights will be incredibly helpful to anyone looking to improve their CRO strategies.<\/p>\n\n\n<h2 class=\"js-cro-guide-subheading gtm_heading \" data-level=\"level1\" data-menu=\"\" id=\"\" data-menu-id=\"\" style=\"text-align:left\">Ian\u2019s journey with testing and key lessons learned<\/h2>\n\n\n<p>My very first experiment was as an eCommerce manager. I fell for all those shiny case studies you see online about \u201cchanging button colors\u201d and you\u2019ll see big results. Of course, the first test was inconclusive, and it led me down the path of finding out how to do optimization properly.<br><br>The perception of Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO) is mostly grounded around growing revenue, but we often overlook the fact that it also helps save costs, reduce waste, and guide business strategy. Experiments are a true measure of whether a business is \u201cdata-driven\u201d or not.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p><em>Beyond just increasing conversion rates, I believe the true power of experiments lies in helping businesses make lower-risk decisions.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n<h2 class=\"js-cro-guide-subheading gtm_heading \" data-level=\"level1\" data-menu=\"\" id=\"\" data-menu-id=\"\" style=\"text-align:left\">Testing alternatives for businesses\u00a0<\/h2>\n\n\n<p>We often associate a \u201ctest\u201d with Randomized Controlled Trials or A\/B tests. RCTs are the best form of evidence, for sure, but there are other ways to \u201ctest\u201d if you don\u2019t have enough resources.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Businesses that don\u2019t have resources for RCTs can do a few things:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Start with customer research like interviews or user tests<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Formulate ideas based on research insights<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Perform prototype testing on the new changes, or do a before\/after analyses<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2400\" height=\"1060\" src=\"https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Customer-research-like-interview-or-user-tests.jpg\" alt=\"Testing alternatives\" class=\"wp-image-92455\" srcset=\"https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Customer-research-like-interview-or-user-tests.jpg 2400w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Customer-research-like-interview-or-user-tests.jpg?tr=w-1600 1600w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Customer-research-like-interview-or-user-tests.jpg?tr=w-1366 1366w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Customer-research-like-interview-or-user-tests.jpg?tr=w-1024 1024w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Customer-research-like-interview-or-user-tests.jpg?tr=w-768 768w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Customer-research-like-interview-or-user-tests.jpg?tr=w-640 640w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Customer-research-like-interview-or-user-tests.jpg?tr=w-375 375w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2400px) 100vw, 2400px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p>I also think \u201cresourcing\u201d isn\u2019t as much of an issue as businesses can also run low \u201ceffort\u201d tests like copy tests. Copy changes don&#8217;t require a fully fleshed-out design to get developed, so they are less resource-intensive. The next step involves designs and developments that require proper planning. This includes tests that change the layout and tests that introduce or change existing functionality.<\/p>\n\n\n<h2 class=\"js-cro-guide-subheading gtm_heading \" data-level=\"level1\" data-menu=\"\" id=\"\" data-menu-id=\"\" style=\"text-align:left\">Securing stakeholder buy-in for experiments<\/h2>\n\n\n<p>Start small and prioritize low-effort (low-resource) experiments to prove your case. Once you\u2019ve got a few runs on the board, it\u2019s easier to get buy-in for the bigger stuff.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Get stakeholders involved in ideation. There are an infinite number of ways to solve a problem, and getting their buy-in early will help your entire program. It\u2019s always fun when their assumptions are challenged.<\/p>\n\n\n<h2 class=\"js-cro-guide-subheading gtm_heading \" data-level=\"level1\" data-menu=\"\" id=\"\" data-menu-id=\"\" style=\"text-align:left\">Adapting to changing customer behavior<\/h2>\n\n\n<p>Customer research needs to be performed on an ongoing basis to keep up with trends and shifts in buyer behavior. It\u2019s not enough to just do research and then run tests; research must be run in parallel. At Experior, we suggest 90-day sprints that prioritize research and then rapid testing. We adjust our roadmap based on new insights frequently, not just from tests, but from research.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We start every engagement with thorough customer research. We prioritize rapid research techniques that will allow us to get a test up and running within two weeks. Whilst the tests are running, we also focus on deep qualitative research and run the two tracks side by side.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2400\" height=\"1516\" src=\"https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-that-research-and-testing-should-happen-side-by-side-at-the-same-time.jpg\" alt=\"Research and testing\" class=\"wp-image-92461\" srcset=\"https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-that-research-and-testing-should-happen-side-by-side-at-the-same-time.jpg 2400w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-that-research-and-testing-should-happen-side-by-side-at-the-same-time.jpg?tr=w-1600 1600w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-that-research-and-testing-should-happen-side-by-side-at-the-same-time.jpg?tr=w-1366 1366w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-that-research-and-testing-should-happen-side-by-side-at-the-same-time.jpg?tr=w-1024 1024w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-that-research-and-testing-should-happen-side-by-side-at-the-same-time.jpg?tr=w-768 768w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-that-research-and-testing-should-happen-side-by-side-at-the-same-time.jpg?tr=w-640 640w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-that-research-and-testing-should-happen-side-by-side-at-the-same-time.jpg?tr=w-375 375w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2400px) 100vw, 2400px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p>New insights from either testing or research inform and dictate an overall insights roadmap. This roadmap allows us to know the top priority for research and testing. We run this for one sprint length (in our case 90-days) and we end with a retro with the client to review what worked and what didn&#8217;t. This allows us to plan for the next 90-day sprint and we continue this system going forward.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Within our sprints, we always have our clients involved (if they want to be) in the ideation session. There are so many ways to design a treatment for a hypothesis, and getting clients involved earlier means they have more buy-in and ownership of the treatment and outcomes. When there\u2019s a difference of ideas, we suggest an A\/B\/C test where both the client\u2019s preference and our preferences are tested with traffic<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p><em>The more mature an organization is, the more it thinks in terms of risk mitigation and overall product strategy. Less mature organizations will fixate on immediate wins. This isn\u2019t necessarily a bad thing but there\u2019s obvious room for growth.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n<h2 class=\"js-cro-guide-subheading gtm_heading \" data-level=\"level1\" data-menu=\"\" id=\"\" data-menu-id=\"\" style=\"text-align:left\">VWO enhances CRO efficiency with examples<\/h2>\n\n\n<p>Yes, VWO is my first point of contact for companies that are new to testing. The platform has helped introduce a lot of organizations to the power of experimentation.\u00a0<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-vwo-gutenberg-vwo-protip\"><div id=\"vwo-gutenberg\"><div class=\"vwo-protip-section\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/2024\/05\/icon-bulb.svg\" width=\"36\" height=\"42\" \/><div><strong class=\"vwo-protip-heading\">Pro Tip!<\/strong><p class=\"vwo-protip-content\">Drive faster, smarter data-driven decisions with <strong><a href=\"https:\/\/vwo.com\/copilot\/\">VWO Copilot<\/a><\/strong>, streamlining your testing process. The AI-powered engine generates tailored testing ideas, automates variation creation, provides in-depth heatmap and recording analysis, and more.<\/p><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div>\n\n\n<h2 class=\"js-cro-guide-subheading gtm_heading \" data-level=\"level1\" data-menu=\"\" id=\"\" data-menu-id=\"\" style=\"text-align:left\">Test program delivering outstanding results<\/h2>\n\n\n<p>The most recent project was for a financial services company that heavily relied on its website to generate leads and sales. They redesigned their website due to the assumption that it was outdated. They followed all the typical best practices\u2014lots of white space, succinct copy, and beautiful imagery. When they launched, they were getting twice as many leads, but they were highly unqualified compared to the previous site. I was asked to investigate and found 30-40 insights into what happened.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We reverted the website to the previous state, performed a few tests based on the insights, and the final result was a 45% increase in qualified leads compared to the previous site.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p><em>Statistical significance is an important guardrail metric, but I would never recommend it as a strict rule that must be hit. The context of the business, its sales cycles, traffic, and current conversion rate\u2014everything plays a part. I am on the side of the speed of learning. Thus, sometimes, it is acceptable to reduce this number to ensure you learn fast.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n<h2 class=\"js-cro-guide-subheading gtm_heading \" data-level=\"level1\" data-menu=\"\" id=\"\" data-menu-id=\"\" style=\"text-align:left\">Top experimentation mistakes to avoid<\/h2>\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Not having a testing strategy that allows for reprioritization when needed. I see a lot of testing programs using a shotgun approach, without the bigger picture learning.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>You see a lot of A\/B test case studies online, particularly on LinkedIn, with wins, but they never mention the research\/insights, and they always hide the stats. These tests are then copied by companies wishing to see the same results, unaware that the hidden stats paint a different picture.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Not committing resources to experimentation. Experimentation works best culturally when driven top-down by executives. If the organization isn\u2019t that mature yet, at least stop siloing it with marketing budgets. It is better served under product\/engineering teams that can use experimentation strategy to prioritize and validate their roadmap.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2400\" height=\"1180\" src=\"https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Rigid-testing-strategy.-2.jpg\" alt=\"Experimentation mistakes\" class=\"wp-image-92467\" srcset=\"https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Rigid-testing-strategy.-2.jpg 2400w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Rigid-testing-strategy.-2.jpg?tr=w-1600 1600w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Rigid-testing-strategy.-2.jpg?tr=w-1366 1366w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Rigid-testing-strategy.-2.jpg?tr=w-1024 1024w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Rigid-testing-strategy.-2.jpg?tr=w-768 768w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Rigid-testing-strategy.-2.jpg?tr=w-640 640w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/11\/An-illustration-showing-Rigid-testing-strategy.-2.jpg?tr=w-375 375w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2400px) 100vw, 2400px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n<h2 class=\"js-cro-guide-subheading gtm_heading \" data-level=\"level1\" data-menu=\"\" id=\"\" data-menu-id=\"\" style=\"text-align:left\">Conclusion\u00a0<\/h2>\n\n\n<p>Did you enjoy this interview? Ian Fong shared valuable insights on a range of topics in the world of CRO. He covers even more in his full interview with us on CRO Wizards. Check it out below.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed aligncenter is-type-rich is-provider-pocket-casts wp-block-embed-pocket-casts\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div style=\"width: 100%; max-width: 690px; max-height: 100%; position: relative;\">    <div style=\"padding-bottom: 42.857142857142854%;\"><\/div>    <iframe title=\"In Conversation With Ian Fong | CRO Wizards by VWO Podcast (Episode #5) - VWO Podcast\" src=\"https:\/\/pca.st\/embed\/oxb6uty6\" style=\"border: 0; border-radius: 8px; position: absolute; top: 0; left: 0; width: 100%; height: 100%;\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" frameborder=\"0\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>And if you&#8217;re looking to elevate your conversion optimization journey, VWO is the all-in-one platform you need to drive better results. <a href=\"#request-demo\">Take a demo<\/a> today and start optimizing smarter!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Welcome to the tenth post in our &#8220;CRO Perspectives: Insights from Industry Thought Leaders&#8221; series. This time, Ian Fong, a leading name in Australia\u2019s CRO industry, shares his expertise on various aspects of CRO. Without much ado, let&#8217;s get started.&nbsp; Leader: Ian Fong Role: Managing Director, Experior Location: Australia Speaks about: Digital Strategy&nbsp; \u2022 Conversion&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":814,"featured_media":92450,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"post_read_time":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[10686],"tags":[],"feature":[1852],"industry-type":[],"product":[10627,10626],"role":[10635,10638,10633],"region":[10685],"class_list":["post-92449","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-expert-interviews","feature-ab-testing"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.9 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Leverage CRO for Cost Efficiency and Strategy Building, Not Just Revenue: Insights from Ian Fong | CRO Perspectives<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Discover why Ian Fong believes experiments are the true measure of a business&#039;s data-driven approach. 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